SPEAKER_04 0:00

If you decide to be brave and to niche and to take a leap of faith and be like, okay, I know this is scary. It is gonna feel scary. It is gonna feel like you're cutting off all the rest of the people. But I'm telling you, it's gonna make your job easier. And I'm gonna explain to you how and why. When you focus in on a particular group, when you really niche down, you're gonna get more clear. And then when you do your content, your videos, when you make your offer, and you're able to speak to that one group or that one person. Your content becomes very clear. That person on the other end is gonna feel like, oh my gosh, they're talking to me. How do they know I'm going through that? Again, these are not literal questions they may be asking, but that's what they're going to be feeling subconsciously as they're looking through your copy and your messaging and your offer and your landing page. And that's when you start talking to one person. Do an experiment where you're like, okay, instead of just saying anybody that wants to lose weight, why don't we get very, very specific? I'm looking for women over 40 who are trying to lose the baby fat after a pregnancy. You are going to track a very specific audience. You are gonna be able to focus more on the copy of what you're saying that specifically addresses the pain points of that group.

SPEAKER_00 1:21

You have something to sell, a service, a program, a skill people need, and you cannot understand why they are not buying. Today's guest has the answer, and it's not the one you want. Jen Fontanilla spent 25 years in design before she crossed into the money side of business. Now she helps creative people charge what they are worth. She has built the offer, she has filed the bankruptcy, she has laid both sides of the table. Here is what she will tell you. The problem is not the audience, it is the fog. When someone reads your offer and has to work to understand it, but in brain cell, unnecessary brain cell, they leave. A confused buyer does not buy. We talked about the slot machine. Let's think of a slot machine. You put money in, pull the lever, and hope a vending machine is clear. You see what you want, you pay for it, you get exactly what that is. Most people market like a slot machine, unfortunately. She will show you how to become the vending machine. This is all about getting clear. And clear, it turns out, is how you respect the person you are trying to serve. Welcome Jen Fontanilla to the Memoir to Women's podcast. If you're listening to this, you're probably standing in two places. You might be the person who is great at what you do and still cannot figure out why the money does not match the talent. You do the work, you do it well, and the numbers at the end never adds up to what you put in. Or you might be on the other side of it, the person who finally cracked it, who figured out that the work was never the problem. If you were standing in that first place, this conversation is for you. Because the money does not match for a reason, and the reason is something quieter than skills or effort or ours. There's an old saying, Show me your friends, and I tell you who you are. Sit with that for a second. The people you stand next to tell the world what you are worth before you open your mouth. That is positioning. And positioning is the conversation we are having today. It shows up everywhere once you see it. You put your idea next to someone the room already trusts, and your idea borrows that trust. Somebody says, I married up. And you understand instantly that the person there, they stand beside, change how the world reads them. You take the same product, wrapped it two different ways, and one sells for $10 while the other sells for a thousand. Same thing inside the box, different position outside it. So here's the question I want you to sit with today. If positioning quietly decides what people think you are worth, what happens when the most talented person in the room has been standing in the wrong place this whole time? Today's guest spent 25 years in graphic design in the Hollywood movie and video game industry. She was great at the craft. She knew how to make things look like it match its true worth. The one thing she could not do was see her own word clearly. She did not understand her own money. Then a friend trading stock woke something up in her and she crossed over. She left the creative side, spent a decade learning the financial side, and then did the thing few people ever do. She brought both worlds back together into one business, helping creative entrepreneurs charge what they are actually worth. She put it to me in one sentence, and it becomes the spine of this whole conversation. What looks like a money problem is almost always a positioning problem underneath. I've been listening to Joe Paulis and Dean Jackson, two men who have spent 30 years teaching marketing. They said some things that stopped me and got me thinking deeper. I wrote them down. Today I want to read a few of them out loud and find out what stories come up for someone who has lived this for both sides of the table. Jen Fontanilla, welcome to the Memories of Women's Podcast. No, that was a long setup. I know, I know, I know.

SPEAKER_04 5:30

Thank you, Asher. I'm so excited to be here. Um, that is an excellent intro. Uh I think probably the best I've seen that I didn't have to write. So thank you. It was beautiful.

SPEAKER_00 5:45

No, no, no. I think it matches your smile. I was telling somebody on other podcasts about um say smile wide while you still got teeth. You know, because because life happens, and uh so we're gonna make sure we smile wide today because we still got our teeth.

SPEAKER_03 5:59

Absolutely, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 6:02

Yeah, so where you're healing from right now.

SPEAKER_04 6:05

I am in LA. LA. So yeah, we actually just came back from a road trip, drove all the way to Sacramento, and then came back. It felt like uh I was in the car forever. Uh so yeah. Yeah, all the way north and then all the way back south, and and I was I was reminded of why I love flying.

SPEAKER_00 6:32

The road trips. Uh one my friend, my friend, I think she loved driving too, but I I don't like driving. I'd rather I'd rather be shopping around. That's why I'm so grateful for Uber. I'm like, I don't have to drive. Come get me.

SPEAKER_02 6:45

Right.

SPEAKER_00 6:47

No, no. Okay, so you're feeling good today? You ready for this conversation?

SPEAKER_04 6:51

I'm ready. Let's do this.

SPEAKER_00 6:52

Let's do this. Okay, all right. So are we gonna work this out is I got a bunch of maxims, and I thought Jen would be the perfect person to share stories around this. And I'm gonna start with the first one. And the first one says, A compelling offer is ten times more powerful than a convincing argument. When you hear those words, what story comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 7:12

I I immediately I think, like, yeah, a thousand percent. I know that math doesn't math, but I know it's I I laugh sometimes because I say, why do I say things like a thousand percent or a hundred, ten percent? It doesn't really work that way. It's not really over a hundred percent, but you know, it's to emphasize the fact that yeah, this is this is so true, a compelling offer. So when we talk about compelling, what what does that mean? Let's start there, right? So when we think about compelling, how does it make you feel? Is it clear? Does it make you go like, oh my gosh, I want this? Right? It and I I I just wrote this uh this uh uh email blast that went out a couple hours ago. And it was talking to this point about like, you know, if you're gonna have a compelling offer, it needs to be able to stand on its own. Where there's no you having to take sales calls, phone calls, asking, you know, people asking you questions and and then like, well, well, what is what's you know, what what's in this and how does this work? It's compelling because all the elements are there. All the things, the pain points that the person that's reading it is experiencing, the promise, what are they getting? How are you packaging this? Is it clear? Are you talking about all the things that they need to hear? Answering all the questions that are probably going through their mind. And if they're going through, let's say this is on a landing page, if they're going through all of this, your goal at the end of the day, at the as soon as they get to the bottom and they're looking for the button, is just like I there, you want them to say, I I I I want this, I need this, I I gotta, I gotta do this, right? That's compelling, right? That's a compelling offer. And there's some other elements in it involved. But when you have to convince to me, you know, and I've and I've gone through this so many different times and in different ways. If I have to convince, I am now at the point where I realized there was something I didn't do on my end. It isn't so much that, like, what's wrong with these people? How come they don't want to buy this? Right? It's like, no, what's wrong with your copy? What's wrong with your messaging? What's what's wrong with how you presented the offer? And I think we need to shift it. It's not so much what's wrong with people. Like, I don't understand how many times have we said things like this? I don't understand why nobody's buying this. I don't understand why nobody's clicking. I don't, I don't understand why nobody, you know, I I truly believe after going through so many different iterations of creating offers and packages, and and and trust me, I have my fair share and then some of nobody buying anything. So I just like, okay, what's going on? And and now you realize no, you you gotta look inward. What is missing? What is in the offer that you're presenting that's missing some elements? Because I think it's compelling when it can stand on its own and somebody can immediately say, of course, given that it's the right, it's it's you're sharing it with the right people. You're sharing it with that, let's let's be clear on that part that you're sharing it in front of the the correct audience, right? So if if all those things are in place, that offer is compelling. There is no convincing. And it is so smooth and easy. It it is just beautiful because people just click and buy. I mean, how many times have we done it? Whether it was a thousand dollar uh product or program down to those little $7 ones, right? There is something about that offer that was so compelling. You didn't sit there and go, like, well, I don't know, I'm not sure. Let me think about it, right? There it was there, it was so compelling that whatever they said in that offer, in that landing page, in the webinar, whatever it was, you just knew. You just knew there was no convincing, there was no arguing, there was no back and forth QA.

SPEAKER_00 11:01

You know, you might be a friend of Seth Golden, like I am, but he he often says, pick your client, you pick your future, pick your partner, you pick your future, right? And um, and if you understand, sometimes the people that you pick determines how much they they they buy. Because the wrong person is like, it's just not for me. Like, I'm a school teacher, I don't need mechanical stuff. I don't you don't sell me on a car, I don't need a car, don't sell me a bridge, you don't own it, right? So it's it's the idea of you gotta pick the right clients and come back to the the the offer. Like, for example, like the maxims that we we're talking about. My definition of a maxim is it's a statement that can stand on its own without no context. Like anybody picks it up, they can put it in their life, and it's like it feels like like it makes sense to me, right? It does need context to make sense. So you if you're compelling offers the same way, you don't need all the context to make sense because the context fits that person that needs it right there in that moment.

SPEAKER_04 11:54

Right. And I think that's so important for us and the listeners to remember that if you are not talking to the right people or you're not making it clear on your end, in your offer, in your coffee, in what you're saying, if if it's not clear who you're talking to, you can't be mad at the audience or whoever's looking at this, because everybody should be able to self-select. If you're very clear, how many times have you read? I mean, I could skim something like, oh yeah, that's not for me. Well, in nowadays, because of algorithms, you're going to get the things that are matched to you, right? So it's it's like it's even like more even playing, you know, play fairer, you know, it's like the ground is level and fair because you're you're only gonna get ads and things that you know you're you're likely to look for. And so if if people aren't clicking, I always think of it like, okay, maybe you're just not you're you, you it's possible that you're not clear on who you're talking to or who you're addressing this for. And there's times when I've seen copy where I'm like, I still don't get it. I don't know who this is for, I don't know who you're helping, I don't even really quite get what you're trying to sell me. And when, and you have to remember, these are happening, these little these questions are happening in seconds. So that's why people start to scroll. They they pass it, and then you start to wonder, like, I don't understand why people aren't buying. It always comes back down to like, are you covering these basic things? You know, I think if you would just summarize it, is like, is it clear? Is it very clear? Because remember, people, our attention span, I you know, there there is that quote or that statistic that, you know, oh, it's the goldfish has a nine-second attention span. I think it's even shorter than that now. I saw another quote that was saying. Yeah, it's it's shorter than that now. And it it's like it's it's it's it's gotta be so clear. You know, people don't got the time to figure out like what is this? It's like you're scrolling, you're scrolling, and then you know, especially if you're on an app, you're scrolling, you know. So you you really gotta pay attention to how clear is it? If if there are too many questions and you're still, yeah, that goodbye. That that person's already on to the next thing.

SPEAKER_00 14:07

Yeah, and it it's like you're making it too clever, and then I gotta burn mental calorie trying to figure out what it means. And I'm like, ah, bro, that's too much. It needs to be I'm I'm an eight grader. Make it make it very clear. I don't want to burn mental calorie for to understand what it is this is about, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 14:24

Right. And you and you said something so important, Asher, about don't make it, don't, don't get too creative and and don't don't try to be too clever. I I see also oftentimes people are trying to make it this fancy name. Now, now that's different. Let me let me make this caveat. It's different if you have a framework or a method that you are branding. That's that's different versus I'm gonna say we're we're I'm trying to think of an example I've seen. Like, you know, I'm especially in the wellness woo-woo industries, like sometimes y'all get too, and trust me, I'm I'm huge on woo-woo stuff. And sometimes you get too clever that only you know what that means.

SPEAKER_00 15:10

Yes.

SPEAKER_04 15:11

And then that's when the other person on the other end that's reading, going, I don't even know what that is. What do you what do you mean I'm gonna feel such and such? What what what's that gonna get me? You know, they may not be saying these literal questions, but those are the types of things in this in the subconscious that's going like I I have no idea what that means. And to your point about being clever, at the end of the day, what ends up happening is a confused buyer doesn't buy.

SPEAKER_00 15:39

True. I don't want to say this, but I I get we're gonna say it.

SPEAKER_04 15:42

I want you to say it. Say it.

SPEAKER_00 15:44

No, yeah, the it's uh no, it's but I I understand the woohoo stuff, right? Because oftentimes a lot of it is abstract.

SPEAKER_03 15:53

Right.

SPEAKER_00 15:54

And abstract has so much layers to it because it's something that you've been turning in your mind for a while, so you have different ways of organizing it. But if it's not actionable, because abstract, abstraction and action, two different sides. Like, oh, can I take action on this thing? If you haven't made it clear for me how I can take action, then I'm still stuck in abstract. I am confused. Like, I don't know what you know. And that's like a lot, I mean, I went through because I because I'm a very creative thinker. And for me to go deep, I have to go abstract, right? But then I'm like, well, when I gotta flip it for the person that's gonna receive it, they need something that's actionable. And to convert abstraction to action is a skill.

unknown 16:33

Right.

SPEAKER_00 16:33

But if you don't do that, you're stuck in the woo-hoo. And like, what do you mean by this? What do you mean by consciousness? Everybody got their own their own dictionary on that thing, right? Like when people start layering things, I'm like, well, I got my dictionary on that, you got a dictionary. I don't know what it really means. It's crazy.

SPEAKER_04 16:48

It is, and I I think this is also part of the whole compelling offer and getting clear. I think I think sometimes we no, not sometimes. We we have got to learn how to just go straight to the deliverable, straight to the result. Because people don't got time, and if they got a filter through what the hell are you talking about, they're gonna scroll past you. And so all this stuff that I see, like it gets like these flowery, fancy words, like you're gonna feel more confident, you're gonna feel transformation. Well, what is that gonna get me? What so we need to take it a step further. So if you want to make one at least at the minimum, one percent improvement. Think about okay, when that person has the confidence, the transformation, or what whatever the heck it is, what are they gonna be able to do? What is that concrete thing that you can say they're going to be able to do? And it it's it it's gonna vary. This is where you're gonna have bullet points of the promise, right? In your offer, like the different things that you're gonna be able to say, like this is what you're gonna be able to do. But when we start talking in these, like, you know, these these these things that are so floaty, and it just it makes the the reader or the person looking at this offer, your offer, go okay, that's great. And now what? And and now what if I have confidence? You have to remember, people don't want to think. We're tired. We're so tired of having to think and and try to translate what it is, and this is why it the name of the game now is like it's gotta be so freaking clear. I don't want to have to think. And I know and I know a lot of us are experiencing you know fatigue and burnout. I'm seeing those themes come up in in content and and and just things that are popping up in social media and whatnot. And I'm like, even more so, where we need to be clear because you you don't want your reader, your potential client to have to think. They're already going through burnout or some kind of tired fatigue thing. So for you to make them figure out what you're trying to sell them, yeah, you're you're already losing.

SPEAKER_00 19:07

I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast. Before we continue, I have a gift for you. Since 2016, I have read and listened to over 900 books so far. It's gonna be a thousand. And I organized them into a library and I handpicked the top 100 books I recommend to my clients, my friends, and the people in my community. Books on storytelling, language, and personal growth, and building something from your own life. If you're watching this podcast and you're looking for your next great read, this library is your gift. It is free. Go to AsherAlbertWright.com and check out the 1000 book challenge. This is my gift to you. Now back to the conversation. Which goes into the next question here. Okay. Yeah. The moment you start talking to a crowd, you stop talking to a person, when you hear those words, what comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 20:00

You know, I I think this is where the topic of niching, niching, whatever the way you wanna, however you want to pronounce it, this is where that debate of, oh, do I niche down? Oh, it feels too, I don't want to lose out, right? We we've had those conversations in our brain, like, but if I go down too far and I niche too much, then I'm I'm I'm gonna lose out, right? Have you heard of that where people are worried about niching down? And and myself included over the past couple years, right? I was just like, okay, but then what if what about those people? And then I'm not gonna be able to capture those people. And I think in this day and age, especially with the AI stuff out there and so many people in the digital space, which was so different even six years ago, I have found after of seeing so much stuff out there and hearing other, you know, um, creators and coaches and consultants and and very successful people, I have seen that the niching is even more critical than ever because it's gonna allow you to cut through the noise at the end of the day. That and that's the thing. So when we look at this maxim by Dean Jackson about the moment you start talking to a crowd, that's when you're not niching, right? You're you're just kind of what's that phrase I heard? Spray and pray.

SPEAKER_00 21:23

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:24

I heard that term one time, and I was like, that is so funny, but so true that people do that, right? They spray and pray, right?

SPEAKER_00 21:33

You gotta start somewhere.

SPEAKER_04 21:34

Right. I call it like throwing chum into the ocean, you know. Let's see who bites.

SPEAKER_00 21:39

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 21:40

And when we do that, we're trying to we're we're trying to cast uh a too big of a net out into the ocean. And and and so what ends up happening, you don't you don't know what you're gonna catch, right? You ever see it where the net comes up? I mean, I don't do fishing, but like I watch videos, and that net comes up. Sometimes you find some weird stuff and you wonder how the hell did that get. In the ocean. And that's what happens, right? You get all this randomness. You get all this weird boot attire, uh, of course, like some plastic trash, and you get some turtles and like fish, but but you are out there trying to catch tuna, you know what I mean? And it's just like, what the hell came up in this net? And that's what happens when you're talking to a crowd. Yeah. But if you decide to be brave and to niche and to take a leap of faith and be like, okay, I know this is scary. This is, and I'm not talking to those of you out there who still haven't made the jump to niche down, it is gonna feel scary. It is gonna feel like you're cutting off all the rest of the people. But I'm telling you, it's gonna make your job easier. And I'm gonna explain to you how and why. When you focus in on a particular group, when you really niche down, you're gonna get more clear. And then when you do your content, your videos, when you make your offer, and you're you're you're able to speak to that one group or that one person. Your content becomes very clear. That person on the other end is gonna feel like, oh my gosh, they're talking to me. How do they know I'm going through that? Again, these are not literal questions they may be asking, but that's what they're going to be feeling subconsciously as they're looking through your copy and your messaging and your offer and your landing page. And that's when you start talking to one person. And I'm telling you, just humor me and do this experiment. Try it for a week, try it for 30 days. Try to just do an experiment where you're like, okay, um, for example, let me give you an example. Instead of just saying, you know, oh, anybody that wants to lose weight, well, my goodness, who's that? Instead of just saying anybody that wants to lose weight, why don't we get very, very specific? I'm looking for women over 40 who are trying to lose the baby fat after a pregnancy. Or maybe a woman that's in her, you know, late 40s, early 50s, going to perim you know, perimenopause and all these different hormonal changes. You are going to attract a very specific audience. You are going to be able to focus more on the copy of what you're saying that specifically addresses the pain points of that group. And then you will have a better chance of attracting the right audience and having more conversion versus let me cast a wide net. I know it feels very counterintuitive. And it's like, I have found after that's this weird thing. You got you kind of just have to trust it and cross that line and realize, oh, they were right. I should have niched down a long time ago. Because it's going to make your job easier. You're going to be able to talk to that one group, that one avatar. And now you're not. And here's the thing when you're writing your post and your cop and your email blasts and all the things that you know we got to do and make your videos, whatever, you're able to talk to that that group and that person with specificity. Because when you're so vague, it's it's just not landing. And again, we are in a day in where we we are in a time where we have to cut through all the noise. And I find that the people that are so hyper-specific and niche down, those are the people that are winning. You know, not to say that if you're very broad, it doesn't work, but you know, a lot of times I see also that those people have developed, they they they have been doing their whatever they're doing, they've been doing for a long time. So they're able to cast a wider net. But if you're still trying to get things up and running, my my I highly suggest like just try it for 30 days. Try niching down and just talking to a small group. If you don't like it and you don't you don't listen to anything I do, then hell, go back to casting the wide net. But just try it for 30 days.

SPEAKER_00 25:54

No, you are you are dropping wisdom here. And but but here's the scary part for the person that you're saying to niche down. It's scary because now if they're niche down, they're gonna be on the hook. That means you're gonna make they gotta make specific promises and they gotta say, oh, I'm a dentist. I specialize in braces. And everybody that wants to fix braces gotta come to me. And I can't I can't worry about everybody else. I gotta, but because it's scary when you when you niche down, because you're on the hook now. You can't just say I'm talking to the world. No, you can hide behind the world, you can hide behind the abstract but when it's specific, it's scary because now they're like, you you told me that you're responsible for how I feel about this thing because you was talking to me. That could get scary though.

SPEAKER_04 26:36

It can, it can, and I think this is where we have to be honest with ourselves that in the part where you talk about in the offer the deliverables or what it is that you're promising. I mean, let's be real, don't freaking put it there if you can't do it.

SPEAKER_00 26:52

Yes. Can't deliver, don't put it.

SPEAKER_04 26:55

It just comes down to that. Don't don't make it bullet number three if you can't do bullet number three. Don't put it, don't put it, you know. Be be be honest, because that that's that's that's first and foremost important. Be honest with, you know, and that goes with pricing, and we can talk about that later, but it's like you you you have to be able to stand behind what you're promising, you know. And if that's if that's something that you can't do, then don't include it because why are you trying to set yourself up for failure? You know, at the end of the day, what I always look for is like, I want this to be a win-win from myself as well as the client, you know, and and who as a result, as an indirect result, their clients, right? Because if I'm helping this person and they do great, they're helping their clients, right? And so just be honest, you know, you you don't don't make up stuff. You can't deliver. I mean, and then that way you don't feel scared. I think the fear comes from other other things, but you know, it comes down to putting in the reps. Sometimes there are going to be times where it feels scary, naturally and rightfully so. And when I have been asked this question, well, well, how do I know if it's if you know if it feels scary, if I shouldn't do it? I think the mistake that some of us do is that we find that it's scary and a and and oh my gosh, I I don't want to do that. That that doesn't feel good. And you take that fear and make it the answer to like, no, don't move forward, don't do this, right? Because some people are like, well, it doesn't feel good, it doesn't align, blah, blah, blah, right? They don't feel good. So then they they let that fear stop them, but they use it as an excuse to not move forward. And so, how do we discern whether or not that fear is something we push through or something that we pay attention to and go the other way? Here's my answer to that. If the thing that you are trying to do is in alignment with the goal of where you're trying to go, if the answer is yes, this is in alignment and it's still scary, and I'm I'm I'm scared as shit, and I don't I don't know what to do, but I'm scared, it means you still need to go through it, but do it afraid. If it doesn't align because of for whatever reason, like, you know, that's not really the audience, you know, it this feels scary, and I'm not sure, but it it just feels like it's it's not in alignment with the the ultimate goal, the ultimate end game, then that's that that's different, right? It's different because it's not in alignment with where you're trying to go. Then that fear is a different fear. It means you're you're paying, you need to pay attention to the okay, is this an alignment still? Is this in congruency with where I'm trying to go? If the answer is no, then okay, then then not, then, then don't go that way. Change and pivot and and do something else. But I what I'm trying to say is we have to be discerning whether if it's fear because this is new territory, but it's still alignment, then go, versus oh, I'm scared, I don't want to do it. Does it does that make sense?

SPEAKER_00 30:05

Yeah, I got it. And I think we should probably tie into this one I was thinking of looking at here. I know it says your customer doesn't want what you sell, they want what it fixes. And as I'm thinking through that, I'm like, yeah, because I want the result, I don't want the I don't want the drill, I want this hole and this thing I can hang on in the house, right? You can keep the drill after I finish getting my hole, right? But people want the thing that the thing fixes, not your thing. So what are your thoughts on that?

SPEAKER_04 30:34

Yeah, this is that common mistake of focusing so much on the features of what you do and what you're trying to deliver versus the benefits. It's something that, you know, in sales and marketing that it's been talked about for decades. And uh one of the easiest mistakes I see is that we're focused on like, oh, you're gonna have eight weeks and we're gonna have six coaching calls, and then we're gonna do this on Zoom. You know, I'm making an example if you're a coach. Listen, though them people don't care. Some people don't care about all that. Listen, some of y'all don't even show up to your coaching calls, so who cares, right? Who cares that you have six coaching calls? But they want what it fixes. And this is the part where we want to focus on the benefits. What is it that is so amazing about your program or your consulting, your services, whatever it is that you do, what is it that you're gonna do for these people that they're gonna feel like, oh my gosh, this is solving my problem? Remember, people want to feel like they're going from pain to pleasure. So if you keep talking about like Zoom and you get this checklist and you know, like that's nice, but I don't care. I don't care. Like, I can get that with all the freebies and lead magnets out there. Let's be real, right? We ever there's a million of those out there. Tell me what you're going to freaking fix. Tell me how you're gonna fix my problems if I'm overweight and I I I've been trying and I'm already over 40 and I can't get rid of this baby weight. I'm going into like menopause. Like, if that was your niche, you know, for example, tell me what it's gonna make me feel. Am I gonna feel amazing so that I can fit into that little black dress that's been sitting in my closet for the last five years? Think, do you see how specific that was? Like, talk about the things that you're gonna fix in their life, focus on those things. And if you don't know what those things are, do a do a survey. I think that's the easiest thing you can do. And I'm gonna give you guys some tips here. So I would do a survey. Go if if if you have some past clients, existing clients, ask them. Ask them what you know, what did you enjoy about you know what I did for you? Or what is it that you know you felt was a huge transformation when you were in the XYZ program, when we worked together, and then let them talk about it. Yeah, because I'm telling you, those those answers are gold. You're gonna want to try to incorporate that into your your messaging. Here's another tip, and I think I have found this to be very valuable as well. Go to these two sites, Reddit and Quora. Be careful because those those places are like rabbit holes and like forget it, like you can easily lose your day. But what you want to do is go in there and then type your, you know, let's say some question about your particular person, your your avatar or the group that you you're looking to help. And you will see people complaining, people just venting. And I'll tell you, that stuff's gold. That stuff's gold. You you highlight and copy all those complaints, all those threads, all those conversations, then throw that thing into like Claude. Asher and I are huge Claude fans. Throw that thing into Claude and then help it, help, help, have it help you summarize those things and how to incorporate that into your copy. Because you're you're you're getting it from people who are experiencing the problems that you are fixing. But you are gonna use the the venting, the the bitching and moaning, you're gonna use that because that's what people are attracted to. People will read that and go, like, oh gosh, yeah. How many times have you seen a post where you're just like, oh my gosh, I went through the same thing? People are going to gravitate towards the things that they can relate to. And if you're not putting things that are relatable and you're and or even worse, you're you're just too broad. You're you're way up here when your people need you to be down here at their level. This is gonna help you get very focused and granular down to the problem, and then you're gonna be able to talk about it because you again, we want the person that's reading this to say, Oh my gosh, that's exactly what I'm going through. Yes, please help me fix this. I'm so sick and tired.

SPEAKER_00 35:16

No, you're right about um because I I I normally have my AI go to Reddit because you're right. This is it's it's gold mine over there. It's like it's like customer feedback, but they're not your customer, they're gonna be your customer because you know what they're going through. This is um, this is amazing. Here's one more for you. But this is the one I want you to talk about. I want you to I want you to get your thoughts on. The thing that is obvious to you is invisible to your customer. The gap is where the marketing is. When you hear those words, um, what comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 35:44

You know, from my personal experience, I I love this this one. This is something weird. I think it's weird to me. This is something that I have to constantly remind myself. So, for all of you out there, you you have to remember you are an expert in your own right and in your own way. And I think what happens often is that we forget how amazing we are. And I'm not trying to like blow smoke up your ass, but let's just be real. You all are great because obviously you're doing what you're doing because you're good at it, and you're trying to make an offer, you're trying to sell a service, a program, whatever it is. So you obviously know what you're doing to some extent, right? But you forget that. And then when you're trying to create your program and your package, what ends up happening is you forget that level of genius that you possess. And then you start to think like, oh, well, they don't need this, or like, well, who needs this? It's too easy. That's obvious. Who needs this? And you have to remember your customer is like way behind you. Because you are at a level where you have either mastered it, you have either done it, you have had, you have helped other people do it. So to you, it's so easy. And when it becomes that level of ease, that's when you know you're an expert, but you forget that. And the point I'm trying to make is you don't include those things. And you don't, when you're thinking through the process, you think like, well, who needs this? Like, you know, I don't need to talk about this. So you totally take it out of the messaging because you overlook it because you're so high up here, because you're so good at what you do. And I'm telling you this because this this goes into another level where some of you need to raise your rates. And this is why you need to remember that you're an expert. Because sometimes you go, like, well, I don't know. Like, do I really should I really try? It's so easy. It's so easy. I can do that so quickly. There's a reason why you can do it quickly because you're an expert at it. But some of you are still staying at the level where it's like you you act like you're a beginner. You your rates are reflecting like you're a beginner. Because you're forgetting that you there in uh I remember when I was studying NLP, neurolinguistic programming, there was like there are these four levels, and one of the levels was um unconscious competence. You are at a level where like you just do it naturally, and so it's so easy for you. And the the the point I'm trying to make is you discredit that, and as a result, you don't charge enough. And now this is affecting your bottom line. So I need you all to remember that so that you can do an evaluation and say, you know what? Um, yeah, I do need to raise my rates. I I am offering this level because I I talked to so many people, Asher, and I'm just like, why are you charging that? Like, are you serious? You do all that and you're you're you're charting 500 bucks? Like it's it's crazy. And so this is so near and dear to me, where I want all of you to reevaluate your rates because you're experts at what you do, you are transforming people's lives, you're you're creating all these amazing things for your clients, but some of y'all are going broke. So you need to raise your rates and to and again deliver it. You need to be able to deliver all the things that you're saying. But, you know, and and going back to the quote, the the gap is where your marketing lives. You have to remember this is where you need to explain, like, okay, you again, if you if you picture two islands, and this is Pain Island and this is Pleasure Island, you are the thing, the boat that's helping them, the gap that's helping them get from here to here. Otherwise, they're just floating out in the ocean, completely lost. But now that they have you, you need to explain what is it that I'm gonna get. Am I gonna finally feel sexy again because I lost that last 15 pounds after the baby weight, and I can fit into that little dress that's been sitting in the closet? Again, those are that's an example of how we were gonna get very specific and granular in the messaging and the deliverable and the transformation. And this is where I, you know, we're just talking about like 10 minutes ago about this is where you do your research. Go back to your existing clients, go back to your past clients, go on Quora, go on Reddit, and just look at the things that people are complaining about. That is going to be so much gold and resource for you to use when you're doing your marketing, when you're doing your copy and messaging, and that's how you're gonna be able to shrink that gap.

SPEAKER_00 40:32

You are you are tapping to a lot of wisdom, and uh, here's my spin on it too. Because, you know, if you had to define something to somebody, that means they don't understand it. So when it's like, let me redefine, let me define it for you. Because in your head, I know too much. You're right. My coach off Joe Welling often tells me when we start giving speeches, our most of our problem is that we know too much, and we think the person knows what we know, and they don't. So we gotta define a thing for them, right? And and the marketing pieces, I just I'm like, I mean, I finally figured out about marketing, really, really how simple it is. And it comes back to storytelling, but oftentimes we don't want to even understand what storytelling is. So I was thinking about it. So you what you went to an experience, and if you sit on and tell me and write a story about the problems, right? The the anti-hero that was against you. You talk about that challenge, right? You focus on anti-hero, you talk about the anti-hero. Why are you talking about and tell me the story the thing you overcome or you was going to what so forth and so on? You're selling me on the story, right? You're selling me on the product by telling me the story what you went through. So if you can walk somebody through the story of how you overcame the thing, the journey, taking the journey, because the journey is what's selling on the product, not pitching the product, but the journey. If you can tell the story about it, people are like, oh, I want that result too. Because I'm in the experience with you, and I like the way I felt when I was going through it with you. If we master that storytelling, then it's easier to tell because oftentimes most of the juice is in the anti-hero side, not the hero side, the anti-hero. Those are my thoughts. What are you thinking?

SPEAKER_04 41:54

I love it. I love it. I'm so glad you brought up storytelling, Asher. I think it's important, and and I'm seeing this pop up a lot too, because of AI, and trust, trust us, we we love Claude. Claude's our favorite. Claude is our favorite LLI.

SPEAKER_00 42:10

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 42:12

Because we talked about this last time. Uh, but because of what has been termed as the AI slop, and some people are not using it properly, uh, and they're just doing copy and paste from whatever, whatever. It's so critical now to do storytelling. And when we talk about storytelling, I'll give you a little snippet of what we're talking about. When I say storytelling, I'm talking about like, are you interjecting your personal stuff, your your experience, or are you just making you don't want your you don't want your stuff or your content to feel so generic. People are tired of it. This is this is such a huge opportunity for you all to put in something that's so unique to you. And so when you're creating your offers, when you're putting your content out there, when you're your messaging, what whatever it is, like, are you including a story? Are you including in when I say story, I'm I'm I think we can make it as general as like, okay, is your personal flavor in there? Meaning, if I read this, could it only be unique to you? Or am I looking at content that anybody could have wrote, or or maybe clutter chat chatty? I call it chatty. Could it, could it, could that be the case, right? So you want to be able to infuse something personal. And then people are like, well, how personal? Like, listen, as per as as comfortable as you can be, right? You know, I'm not, you know, people ask me all the time, well, what do I include? I don't know if I want, then don't talk about it. I'm not trying to make you feel like to the point where you're like, oh my God, I don't want to talk about that. That's a that's a muscle you'll have to build up to. And um, you know, because I've had that question, like, well, how personal should I be? Listen, I had to build up to the point where I was comfortable talking about my development. I lost everything. I had IRS issues. I had to file bankruptcy while I was a financial advisor. Trust me, I have lived it. I had learned, I had to learn how to build the muscle to be able to talk about that. You do it at your pace. You do it what's comfortable. But I'm telling you, there's something very powerful that when you when you are able to infuse something that's that's personal, that that's unique. And I don't want to say personal, like, oh my God, the deep dark secret is about the family. No, I'm not even really talking about that. It's more like, is it is it unique to you? Is it unique to you that I couldn't even say that I wrote it? And that's the problem with a lot of content out there right now and stuff that you're seeing is that people are just using AI and copy and pasting, and there's like there's no personality. And I think that's where we're starting to feel and and see the AI slop. And I and I'm not here to bash AI like Asher and I freaking love it. But you've got to use it correctly. And so, you know, it's it's it's really important to start integrating the storytelling and and and think about it. Here's another test that you can do. Think about the stuff that you gravitate towards. What why are you stopping on some posts and why do you keep scrolling on others? You'll notice it's because it's personal. They started off with some story about themselves in the past, or maybe their kid, or their parent, or something that they just went through. And it doesn't have to be this long thing. It could be like the most minute thing, like, yeah, I went to the grocery store and this crazy person in front of me started yelling at the cashier. You know, it could be something so small, but you know, AI is not gonna make that up for you. So infuse those little things. That's what's gonna make you unique. That's what's gonna help you stand out as you're putting yourself out there and incorporating storytelling.

SPEAKER_00 45:50

I have so much on storytelling, but I won't go dig into that one.

SPEAKER_04 45:53

That's a different episode.

SPEAKER_00 45:54

Yeah. But here's one more. And this one says, give more than you ask for. The person who gives first gets chosen first. That was kind of it's only kind of tricky, but I'm curious to know what pops in your mind.

SPEAKER_04 46:08

This makes me think of Jesus. This makes me think of the Bible. Um it's like there's there's a in scripture is the the first shall be last and the last shall be first. But I think at the at the at the core, what this maxim is saying, in my opinion, is lead with a servant's heart. I think it's that simple. Um, and then I remember this book um I read by um Simon Sinek. Uh oh gosh, I think it's called Leaders Eat Last.

SPEAKER_00 46:43

Leaders Eat Last, yes.

unknown 46:44

Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 46:45

And which I love the book cover, by the way. Rando. But I think we have to remember that this is about how do I serve? How do I give? Let me not worry about what am I getting? What am I getting? Because there's enough selfishness in this world. And I think when we when I look at this, this give more than you ask for, and the person who gives first gets chosen first. If you believe in the laws, the universal laws, the spiritual laws, there's always this reciprocity, law of reciprocity, right? It may not necessarily, let's say you do a favor for somebody. It it and sometimes I think we can get easily fixated and like, well, I did that for him, and he didn't do anything with it, and then why I what a waste of time. You you got you're thinking about it the wrong way. Because that's happened to me so many times. And I think about the times when there's other people who have given back to me their time, their talent, whatever it was, even money, you know, and and I think about it, wasn't this direct exchange with that person, but God, universe, spirit always gave it back to me in some other form or fashion. And I think if you can just lead with that and just think about, you know, how can I serve at the highest level? How can I help this person that is going through all this pain, but I have the answer. How can I just do my best to lead them and guide them through this so that they can get to the pain to the pleasure? And then I don't worry about like, well, this person give me back and this person do anything. Like, I just move on. I just move on. There's so many times where I've done some favors, or it could even be small. There's some small, some big. Like there's one where this person, you know, I made this, you know, glowing review on one of their YouTube videos, and I did some other stuff, and then they never booked me on their podcast, and they were the person that reached out. It was, it was dumb. It was dumb. But you know what? I said, whatever, there's a freebie. And I just moved on. Because I you you cannot get hung up on stupid shit like that. You can't. It you're it's so beneath you, it's a waste of your time. And remember this phrase where your focus goes, your energy goes. So you could easily waste all this time thinking about the people who did you wrong and the people who didn't pay you back, and the people who didn't, you know, do what they said. Like you, you just gotta let that go. If you can just learn to let that go, you're gonna not only have less stress, you're you're not getting tethered to that tie. You wanna be able to just like cut it and just let it go. Because if you truly again believe in universal laws, there is such an abundance of resources out there. There's an abundance of there's billions of people on this planet. And so you will get yours, but you can't be your energy, cannot be combobulated, you know, discombobulated and all tied up and like, oh, this person didn't do this and this and this. It's like, well, guess what? This leads to another concept that I talk about in my book, where if you're so focused on all that stuff, you have blocked energy. You're not even open, you don't even have the space and the capacity to receive anymore. So if you're so concerned about all the people who did not return the favor and all the people who didn't choose you, and all the people who said no, you are creating this energetic block versus like, I'm just blessing these people. Okay, it's all good. They didn't, they didn't pay back or whatever, they didn't do this. And I'm not talking about pay, like they didn't pay an invoice. That's a totally different conversation. But you know, like favors and whatnot, you gotta let that go because you're if your energy is congested, you have all this these blocks, you are not open to receive. And so you're wondering, you may be wondering, like, well, how come I'm not getting chosen? How come I'm not getting sales? Like, you know, how come I'm not getting chosen to be a speaker? It could be that you have so much blocks of energy, you know, energy blocks or so much you know, energy towards like what didn't happen for you that you are literally creating the blocks for all these blessings to come into your life. That's something to think about. You know, if you're if you what are you caught up in? You know, are you just being like, hey, I'm gonna release it, let go? So that I you you gotta create the space for these things to come to you. And if it's not coming to you, is it's most likely, very likely, that it's because you're you're still stuck and tethered to something that didn't happen for you, or you're so hung up on I didn't get mine. And we need to let that go.

SPEAKER_00 51:31

Powerful message, dear Jen. And I'm gonna take you to this one here. It says complaints are actually people begging for attention. Within that complaint is what they actually want. We talked about that because sometimes the person that's complaining, like is your favorite customer? Because right there, you solve that problem, you're in business. But what are your thoughts?

SPEAKER_04 51:52

Yeah, it's it's like what we were talking about earlier about Cora and Reddit. Okay, you guys gotta be careful when you go there. It is you gotta go in there with a suit of armor, and and then you're gonna need a shower after that. Because it's good content, but man, these people like hating life is good content. They hate, they hate in life, but complaints are actually people begging for attention. You know, there's a lot of things probably going on in this situation. A lot of people, I think, don't have somebody to vent to. So unfortunately, unfortunately, because of social media and platforms, there anybody can have a platform in this day and age. And so they're complaining. But you have to look at this as an opportunity. How can I take this complaint and use it in my copy? How can I take this complaint and use it in my content? Or or take the complaint and ask yourself, is there anything in what I do uh that can solve this, that can that can help this? Because this person might not be the only person dealing with this issue. You know, there's times when I've uh I'll pay attention to things that the other people are complaining about or questions that keep popping up, right? You guys gotta pay attention to those things because those are opportunities for you to create mini courses, mini offers, or maybe a full-blown offer, if especially depending on how much is coming up. You gotta, you kind of have to be like a, you know, like a detective investigator where you're paying attention to all these clues that are being laid right in front of you. Are you going to be able to recognize the opportunity that's right there in front of you to help these people solve this problem that they're complaining about? You know, and so you know, going back to this quote, you know, within that complaint is what they actually want. Well, if it's something that they want, and depending on how you're presenting this offer, these are the people that you're gonna go back to and they're gonna go like, oh my gosh, I want this, right? And we talked about in the very beginning the compelling offer. You're speaking to what they are complaining about. This is something that they want to get rid of. Listen, again, they don't want your Zoom call, they don't care how many Zoom calls there are, they don't care how many checklists and PDFs you're gonna make. They don't care about that stuff. They want to know that you're gonna help them not feel whatever the heck they're complaining about.

SPEAKER_00 54:22

This episode is sponsored by Live Chinamas the Marketplace, the home for hearters who own their stories and their business. Your book, your merch, your audience. One storefront, you keep 80%, you own your customer list, you build a relationship, real relationship with the readers. If that sounds like the way you want to run your business, visit lifechainwisdom.com. That's powerful. Let's go down because we gotta make sure we get your time here. Alright, let me get some this some other juicy one on here. So this one just says, The biggest enemy is not the thing you need to do, it is all the things that distract you from the thing you need to do.

SPEAKER_04 55:05

You got a lot of quotes on Joe Paul Polish.

SPEAKER_00 55:08

Yeah, yeah. Joe, Joe, Joe is my own my favorite dude. That dude got a good memory when it comes to like remembering maxims and quotes and stuff. But I like I like what he says when he kind of put this together. What are your thoughts on that? What comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 55:19

It it makes me think of how squirrel we are. You know, it's so, oh gosh, the distractions. It's it's it's so true. This is such a true maxim. It's it's the part about it's all the things that distract you. You know, I think this is why it's so important to do time blocking. I think it's so important to even down to the littlest things of your coaching calls, which you usually get a calendar, but even like the homework part, right? Like when you're in a program, for example, so many of us have bought programs, and you have homework, right? And I I I go through this all the time. I literally have to, and I'm I'm I'm I'm going through this right now, and I'm reminding myself as I'm saying this to you all, like, I have to time block, okay. I'm gonna watch these, I'm gonna watch modules one, two, three, and and then I'm gonna time block it here so that it gets done and because then I gotta create the homework and do all this other stuff. And how many of us get go through these programs and then we don't we get to the end of it, it's done, you're like, yeah, I didn't finish it. That's why they call it shelf help. That's why the statistic is less than 10% of people complete a coaching program or some kind of digital course program. And so you need to create these time blocks where you're actually doing it because it's so easy to get distracted, right? And I think it's so important that we create these appointments with ourselves, even though it's just, you know, yeah, it's just you sitting there. And then you do need to turn off the notification. I there's oftentimes I have I have my phone off, the the volume. The phone's not off, but it's the volume's off. I turn off WhatsApp, I turn off like you know, everything, and I just get really focused. And you know what the weirdest thing is, Asher? I find like the first like 10 minutes is so hard. But once you get into the groove and you set a timer and all these different things, especially if you're doing like a two-hour blog, like it you realize it goes by so fast. And you're just you you start to get into like the zone, and then you're so focused. And then you look up, you're just like, oh my God, I want to, oh man, I wish I could keep going. And it's just, I don't know what it is about those first, not even the first 10 minutes. It's like, it's like the time leading to that. Like, you just don't do it. It is so easy for us to get distracted. We think about all these other things that need to get done, and that's why this quote says it's all the things that distract you from the thing that you need to do. And I think this really just comes down to time management, time blocking, turning off all the distractions and giving yourself that time. You know, it's like you treat it the same, you give it the same respect that you give other appointments. And and you don't, and the sad thing is we don't do that for ourselves. And so that's why I think it's really important for us to time block that self. It's it's so important for us to time block that time with ourselves so that we do get the thing done. Because it it's it's like weeks go by and weeks go by, and we think, oh, okay, I'll you just keep pushing it. Like, I know what it is. Like, I know some of you all, including myself, we just move that thing that we were supposed to do to the next week on your Google Calendar. And it just keeps moving and moving. And you just look at it, you're like, oh, damn, it's the program's done. I never finished it. And this is, and and I feel like it's so important nowadays to just get the thing done. And think about how good it feels. Whenever you have finished something, you want to get to the end, right? And I and real quick side note, excuse me. I think one of the things even for myself that I have to remind myself when I'm creating programs and and different uh different offers is that it's so tempting to want to throw everything in there. Oh, I gotta throw everything. We got this this this needs to feel like it's you know, I'm I'm giving value. How many times have you all said that? I'm giving I want to give value. Listen, people don't want your value. People want to feel like whatever the hell they paid you for, it got done. And if that's three things, it was worth every penny. And I think it's so tempting for us to want to throw everything in there. But think about this, and I'm I'm I'm I'm putting myself to this as well, putting myself to this test as well. I think about the programs that had way too much freaking things in there. You gave me 12 modules, we're we did this at eight weeks. You think I got through it? No, I was part of that statistic. The 10% that didn't get it done. You think I felt good? No, I felt like shit. But the program that kept it simple, that followed through on all the deliverables, and it was only like three simple things. I felt 10 times better about finishing that program than the one that offered me all the bells and whistles that I didn't go through. Can you relate to that?

SPEAKER_00 1:00:13

You are dropping gems right now. Because the thing that burns most of our energy are the things that we haven't finished. It's like, imagine you're having your computer open and you have like 18 tabs open. Do you know how much energy is draining from your laptop or your computer? Because all of them tabs are open? That's what unfinished things in your life is like. You were like, why am I so exhausted? Because you got 20 things your brain is thinking about right now that you could have turned off. So I like to finish things. I had to learn that myself because I like to open a bunch of tabs and work a bunch of things. Because I'm boxed out skin.

SPEAKER_04 1:00:46

I'm looking at my other my second my second monitor on a second browser with 20 open.

SPEAKER_00 1:00:54

But it's but it's it's the trap we get into because if we you know, even you talk about you know the seventh day of rest. But you know when I think about the seventh day at rest, what I really mean is that after I finish a task, it's when I can rest. Because until I finish it and it's in the maybe or the unfinished zone, my brain doesn't turn off. Like my brain does not turn off in the background. It's still playing, it's still thinking about that thing. So I'm saying, make a decision, close it out, get it done. Move to the next thing, get it done. You save yourself energy and you save yourself time. So that's my thoughts. Let's jump into one more here. It says, wherever there's anxiety, there's opportunity. We talked about that one, but I want to work on this one here. Okay, it says most people market like a slot machine, they put money in, pull the lever, and hope. A vending machine is different. You see what you want, you pay the price, you get exactly what you selected. This one is from Dean Jackson a little bit. I kind of reframe. But when I see this, when I heard this, I was like, oh my god, we talked about it earlier about throwing suffort, but it's like the vending machine and the slot machine kind of presentation. What comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_04 1:01:58

Oh my gosh, there's so much stuff in this one. It's so good. Okay, I'm thinking about like I'm in Vegas. And I don't gamble, by the way. I cannot stand losing money. Not in that way, you know, not not in the not on the tables and not on the slot machines. And I and I, it's so boring to me. But what came to mind was when I have played on the slot machines. Think about this, right? You're sitting there, whether this is in Vegas or Atlantic City, you're sitting there and you pull the lever. First off, you you you're dealing with this little thing, right? You're you're hoping it's this is how much I don't know anything about this stuff. I I'm just pushing, and now they don't even have that lever. It's just you just push the button, right? I don't even know what I'm doing. And it doesn't matter. I don't need to know what I'm doing because you're gonna push the button and just do whatever. And so you're looking at this little row on the screen and you're hoping like it matches, and then it goes it starts doing that, and I'm just like utter utter confusion, right? I'm like, I don't I don't even know what is going on. I'm just trying to play down this five bucks that I threw in here, and I don't care. It's confusion. It is confusion. So when you're sitting at a slot machine, you're putting the money in, you pull the lever or push the button, you're just hoping it gives you credits.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:18

Yes, right?

SPEAKER_04 1:03:18

You don't even look, trust me, y'all don't know what you're doing. You're just hoping it's gonna put money in the account, you're just hoping it's gonna put money on the on the whatever the voucher that you're gonna get printed out of the end. But you all don't know what's really going on that stupid game, right? You just probably picked it because it was cute graphics or something like that, right? So you don't you don't you don't know what's going on, which is such an interesting analogy because when the offer is not clear and you're just kind of seeing a sliver of what you're trying to sell, the person other isn't like, uh, I'm just gonna keep on reading, like you know, like the slot machine. Um, I'm not quite sure what this is about, but let me keep going and seeing and seeing if this is gonna work. And then what happens? Eventually you get up because you're just frustrated, you're like, okay, that was stupid, and you get up and walk away, right? Because you're either losing money or you don't know what's going on, or you're just bored, which is my case. I'm just like, this is just dumb. Why am I even sitting here? I don't even care about the free drink. But if you have a vending machine, what do you see? It's a clear glass. It's not even just a clear glass, it's rows of food or water, snacks, whatever the hell they're selling. Now, now they're all fancy. Now they got meals, they got like healthy meals, especially at the airport. Oh my gosh, have you seen those Asher? It's like healthy meals with protein and everything. It's not even just chips, but it's a clear glass. In fact, it's so easy for you to say what you want because you could go, oh, I want the A5 one, I want the B6 one. It's not like where is this going? I I can only see the food on row three. No, you see the whole thing, you see how it's labeled. I can see, like, oh, that that bag of chips is gonna be three dollars. And if I want it, it's three dollars, and I can pay with cash or oh, wait a minute, they're only taking credit card or debit. Okay, that's fine. And I can push B7 and I'm gonna get it. Like it's so clear. You're not standing, the only decision you have to make is what do you want to eat or drink, and then you get exactly what you selected, and that's the difference. That's the difference. So, you know, you gotta be the vending machine. You you don't wanna be, you don't wanna be the slot machine. That's utter confusion, it's super noisy, which is so funny because this is another great analogy. This is such a great quote, by the way. Thank you for picking this. Think about the slot machine. Some of you might like that sound for me. I find It's extremely noisy. Right? It's like that's all this crazy noise. Some of your copy is like that. Some of your offers are freaking noisy. You're not getting clear. You're not getting to the pain point. You're not getting to the deliverables. You're not getting to the what's pleasure island. And so what ends up happening is when it's so noisy, like the slot machine, the person's looking at this like, I have no idea what I just read or what I'm looking at. It's not clear. And then they scroll on and they move on because it's there's no clarity. So this is such a great quote. I was like, oh man, there are so many analogies in this. You want to be the vending machine. Super clear, easy. I know how to pay, I know which one to select, and I'm gonna get it.

SPEAKER_00 1:06:47

Right, it's powerful. We're gonna wrap. I like I like where you put that too because at the end of the day, right? You know, if you make yourself findable, then you like a vending machine. That's like that's a person I want to buy from you because you're clear, right? You gotta make yourself clear like a vending machine. I mean, this is so powerful. All right, I have a few wrap-up questions here. Um, and I would love to get see what you say about it. So, last four questions here a TV show or a film you have found yourself returning to lately, if you want to share with us. A TV show or a film you found yourself returning to lately.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:15

I don't watch TV per se, but there was this okay, there was this Netflix series called His and Hers. Oh my gosh. If you guys like those those movies or stories or whatever, that like it's a plot twist and you just didn't expect it. Those there's like murder, there's sex, there's a cheating, there's like mystery. It's so crazy. His and hers on Netflix was freaking amazing. So yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_00 1:07:47

Okay. His or hers. Okay, three three books you would recommend to a friend right now.

SPEAKER_03 1:07:54

Oh dang, man, this is a hard one. Because there's so many good books.

SPEAKER_04 1:07:59

Oh, this is a tough question. I'm trying to find a book around me. I would say one of them would be mine, the creative code.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:09

Okay, okay, okay.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:11

Yeah, especially if you're if if I think it's important to learn why we behave the way that we do and how to do things with ease. And so the creative code is one of them. That's just because it's also an easy answer.

SPEAKER_00 1:08:26

You you mentioned Leaders Eat Last by Simon Sinek earlier. I'm not sure if that's so that's one of your lists or not.

SPEAKER_04 1:08:30

You know what? That's a good one. I think especially, yeah, thank you. I was thinking about that too. I think that was a great one as well, where um, oh, I know another book. I just thought of the third one. I'm trying to think, where is it in my peripherals? I don't see it. But that one by Simon Sinek. Yeah, I think that's great, especially because it flips your perspective on leadership. If you're somebody that has felt like, oh, I'm the leader and you know, everybody's here to serve me because I, you know, I've gone through the ranks, I put in the time, and you know, I shouldn't be lifting a finger and and whatnot. If it that you know, if that's the kind of mentality, it was so interesting to read it. And it actually it made me feel like, wow, I had so much more respect for those people because they the way that they led was with again, like we talked about earlier, Ashra, was with the servant's heart. It's not so much like what can I get? It's just like how can I be of service to even my people that I'm I'm leading. And it's such a different perspective. And I and I think it's so powerful because when we can keep that mentality, it's just more refreshing. There's this, there's this like this ease and this lightness, and it's not this heaviness. And and I think it also most of all takes away that expectation of especially this expectations that we we don't want to put on ourselves because they can feel so heavy, especially when they're not met. Yeah. And the third one, I'm trying to see. Oh, here it is! I don't have the book cover here. Oh, it's over there. But it's it's called um this was this, this was another crazy story. But this is this is even out yet. It's by the here's another tip. This is an incredible marketing podcast. Um, it's called Do This Not That. And um, I have the inside cover. So it's called uh Stuper People Have Done It. Hilarious. I met the I I ran into the uh the author at the Canva uh Canva Create convention a couple months ago, or in April. Freaking hilarious! It's marketing truths, career moves, and life advice for doers. So freaking funny. Um, it comes out uh June 9, it's on pre-sale, but it's so funny, it's so entertaining, fast read, but filled with incredible nuggets and some resources, but something fun, something fun and useful. This this book.

SPEAKER_00 1:10:51

Okay, perfect. All right, here goes the other question. A product or tools you have been using that's been a game changer for you.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:01

Oh my gosh. Netlify. Netlify, never heard yeah, it's uh it's another vibe coding app. Um two Claude to do the HTML coding, and then I take that file and then I deploy it, meaning like I just launch it or it goes out. And um, I've been using Netlify. And it's free, and it's free. So and I you do, I think you do.

SPEAKER_00 1:11:28

Free for now, free for now.

SPEAKER_04 1:11:30

For now, yes. For now, at the time of the recording of this podcast, it was free. Oh, don't come back to us if it's not anymore, but at the time of the recording, it was free. But I I gotta tell you guys, it's it's been one of my favorite freaking tools because I can make landing pages really fast, they're gorgeous. I'm not I'm not having to play graphic designer. And I'm impressed, you know, and I'm I'm not one of those uh creatives who are afraid of AI. I find ways where I'm like, how can this help me work faster? How can this help me work, you know, smarter and leaner and just get it done so I can focus on the other things that are more important instead of getting, you know, caught up in like, oh, I gotta design this and I gotta code this and stuff like that. It's been a game changer. Um I built I have built like uh several landing pages from it and free. And I'm like, oh my god, and they're beautiful. I built quizzes off of cloud coding and then thrown them into Netlify. It's it's been amazing. That's my favorite as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:34

Okay. Last question is a community you have been finding real value in that you want to share?

SPEAKER_04 1:12:42

Oh, yeah. Let me look at my calendar. I just went to another. Um, there's two. There's two. If you if you guys are looking for more online uh networking, um, there's two groups that I love. There's one that I co-host every month. It's called Amped. And um that's every Thursday of the month or second Thursday of the month. It's called Amped Networking, and that's under the Creative Con uh brand. And it's basically, you know, we do uh virtual networking, we go into breakout rooms, and then the other one was by um my friend uh Ben Albert, and he hosts another networking virtual online networking group called uh Grow Getters. So those have been two really cool uh communities that not only have been able to meet other people, just you know, especially if you're looking to grow your LinkedIn and connect with other people, um, those those have been two uh resources that I I've been having fun with.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:45

This was a win. This was a win. So last question before because if position is about what you stand next to, what do you want Jen Fantanella to stand next to five years from now? That's my closing question.

SPEAKER_04 1:14:00

I think that you can have a life where it's fulfilled and and have fun and adventure and just be in alignment with the things that you stand for. I think too often I'm seeing people burnt out, or I hear people like, you know, oh man, I haven't traveled, or yeah, I haven't done that yet. And I I want people to see that it is possible to have all those things, and it is possible to do things without the hustle, without the grind, that there can be an ease and flow to all this madness. And it doesn't have to be madness. I think I think that's so important that that I stand for that. And I I want people to see that it's it's possible to abandon that craziness and that hustle culture, because I don't I don't believe in it and that we don't have to continue living these craziness, or like, oh yeah, it's a groin. You know, you think about those words that we hear when we're asking somebody how they feel. Well, you know how it is, or oh gosh, it's a groin, well, you know, or working for the man. Like, you know, like let's let's let let all that go and that we can start embracing this life where like, yeah, we we are building a business that's fulfilling, that's paying you well, and you know, especially passive income. But not only that, but also having this life with a with a fulfilling business, but having a fulfilling life as well, where you're you're you're traveling, having fun, and and just having this ease and peace and joy to it as well.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:26

With that, my friend, it's it's a pleasure chatting with you today.

SPEAKER_04 1:15:30

Thank you.

SPEAKER_00 1:15:30

It's been utterly utterly fantastic. We gotta rap, we gotta rap. I know it was like, man, I'm looking at the clock, man. I got another meeting like in 10 minutes. I'm like, ah, okay. But um, but it's a pleasure. Any last word? Um, uh, what's your biggest takeaway from this conversation before you close?

SPEAKER_04 1:15:44

Oh gosh, man, there were so many nuggets. I think the biggest one, if I had to wrap it up and think about all the different things that we talked about, was is is this like get clear and and and don't be afraid to get down to the level of your the the your perfect client. And I think the last thing I'll say is that I think some of you probably haven't taken the time to identify who is that perfect client. Because I'm telling you to do all these level two, three, four, five things, but maybe you haven't identified who that person is. And here's a simple homework that you can do. Think about if you have one, who is that client that if you like, oh my gosh, if I could just have 10 more of that person in the next couple of months, like I would be so incredibly happy. Who is that person? And write all their qualities and and and why, why is it? Like, for example, for me, I'll give you an example. I had this amazing client, she's still with me, uh, paid me five figures to do her branding, to do like her all her stuff. And um, super, super easy, never questions me on money. Um, you know, comes to me if there's like, hey, we know what do you think I should do? So it values my expertise and and is always grateful. Um, it's fun. We we would joke around the text messages and we're talking about the bullies that she's experiencing in the in the cyber cyber world, you know, but it's it's it's fun and easy. It's not this like, oh gosh, what do they want? And so I want to duplicate more of her. So for you guys, who is that person? I think you need to go back to that and identify who is that person so that you are even more clear on who you would love to work with more. And when you think about that person, it'll allow you to think very clearly, oh, okay, this is what he or she was dealing with. This is the stuff that I helped them with. And when as you go through that exercise and identify very clearly who that person is that you want more of, you're gonna be able to incorporate more of that experience that you had with that interaction with that client and start bringing that more into your offers and to your the pain points and then the transformation. You can you you gotta learn how to work with what you have already because that's proof. And I think sometimes you guys forget that. So, so go back to who was the ideal client, the perfect client, especially if you have a real example. And now you can speak to, like, you know, even for me, you know, talk about, you know, the woo-woo stuff. I journal all the time. Like, uh, you know, I'll I I write affirmations in the past tense as if it already happened. And the reason being is I don't write it in future tense because it's as if I'm constantly chasing it. So I will write, for example, I'm so happy and grateful for all the perfect clients that came through the program. I signed up at least 10 or more. And I'm so I'm so thankful for the the the five-figure launch. I'm so happy and grateful for the 300,000 that came in unexpectedly in fun ways. And I'm gonna tell you, I there's multiple times it has, it just, it just not not always immediate, but the timing is always last minute sometimes, but but it came through. It came through, and I think it's because I'm setting my mind to it. And there's so many times where I have said, I don't know how this is gonna happen, but it's gonna happen. And I just stick to it. I don't get caught up in the how. I think that's the big key. I don't get caught up in the how. I just trust, and this is where your faith, whatever you believe in, this is where your faith has to come in. Alongside with you taking action. Let me make this clear. This is not about you rubbing a genie lamp and you know making wishes and then it just falls on your lap. There is this intention setting and manifesting as well as taking inspired action. Because some of y'all are ignoring that voice that's telling you to do something, and then you let the fear set in, or you hesitate, or you don't move on it. So when you got that nudge telling you to like, hey, this, and you and you're like, oh, I know, I got this idea. Move on it. And if you fail, if it doesn't work, perfect. You're gonna get feedback, you're gonna find out what didn't work, you're gonna know what to do better the next time. Start learning how to not be afraid of it just not working out because it will always work out because you always have an opportunity to change it, to edit it, to pivot, abandon it, create new. That's that's the beauty of what you all do. You have this opportunity to constantly create and test and test and be okay with it. Think about people who have invented like Ben Franklin, Thomas Edison, like all these people. Do you think they stop every three tries? No, embrace it. Now I embrace the idea that like it's all an experiment. It's fun and it's an experiment. And when you can shift your perspective to that, it doesn't feel so scary.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

That's a wrap. All right, Jen. It's a pleasure chatting with you.