SPEAKER_01 0:00

We humans are we are emotional creatures and we exaggerate our feelings using a certain word because they are emotionally driven. Love comes with so much driven emotions. I can like my phone, I can like my hard drive, I can like my iPod. But love will come at a certain point of time towards a certain thing to which we feel so emotionally inclined. I love my Marvel toys, let's say. I won't say I like this acting. I will. Let's say I love this acting. I like this acting. I love this acting. It's just my view, it's not a branded view. It's when we are emotionally inclined towards something, it transforms in our head from like to love. And there is no other way for me to describe what that is. We're just too emotionally guided by our feelings.

SPEAKER_00 0:55

If you listen to this, you move fast, you answer quickly, you see a problem, you solve it, you move on to the next one. Today's guests would ask you to stop just for a second. Dr. Ankit currently lives in Adelaide, Australia. He studies 10%, almost most people ignore. When a report says 90% agree, your eyes go to the number. He goes to the people who said no. He wants to know what they saw that the rest of us missed. Interesting. He keeps a small object on his desk, a little railroad crossing sign. It has no practical use. He keeps it there for one reason. Every time he looks at it, it makes him doubt what he thinks he knows. He builds his whole desk to make him pause. Today we play a game with maxims. Short statements that are supposed to land clean. He turned each one over, found the cracks in it, and showed me something on a knee I had not seen. This is not a conversation that gives you answers, it is a conversation that teaches you how to fit with a question. Welcome, Dr. Ankit, back to the Members to May's podcast. This is the second time around. So you're you're experiencing your colder season now. And we are experiencing a warmer season.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Yeah. I mean Adelaide is sort of fine. Does doesn't go extremes, although it depends on how people um describe what extremes are for them. But it's just like sometimes, very rare it will go to 40 degrees, 40 plus. It has last year. But generally it stays 36, 37. Some days are 38, 39. And the winters, I haven't seen many freezing temperatures. Um so it has reached two degrees, three degrees constantly sometimes at at night. It's quite okay. But then there is a challenge people living in home and people not have home.

SPEAKER_00 3:13

I think I I forget what what guy was talking. He was like the human body is like we're so fragile, right? You know, animals they got everything built in, they can like just muscle a storm, but we we are so fragile. We so weak, we need we need all that little extra stuff.

SPEAKER_01 3:31

Yeah, it's interesting you said that. I was excuse me. I was reading um a LinkedIn post by somebody. Was it LinkedIn? Yeah, yeah. Somebody posted on LinkedIn yesterday, I think. And they had a picture of uh a little baby um in a mud, covered it with hands in mud. And they wrote a study that was done. I think I might be quoting it wrong, but let's just do it. Um, in some study in Chicago, where they sorry, not in Chicago, in Sweden. And there uh they found out that children who were what was it? It was it was some place where at the back, yeah, playground, where at the back they had those spongy stuff where where kids play so that they don't get hurt, and they replaced it with um forest soil. And over a period of time they started seeing the immune system started getting better. And then they did the same thing with other uh, you know, placare sent childcare centers, I think, and then they found out that where the forest soil was not there and those spongy stuff were there. There was no changes, but as soon as they brought forest the forest soil, they started changing in the immune system and all. So now the government, I think, as per that ad, which may or may not be right, I don't know. They are bringing forest soil, they're helping the child care centers to bring more forest soil for children to develop. So moral of the story was that in our, and that relates to what you said, in our own uh way of preserving our existence, you know, trying to be very clean, accordingly, according to that post, it appears that we have sort of created fragiless for us, or fragility for us, and it isn't so much um that nature made us fragile, it's like over the period of time, all these things that we have done for ourselves to make our life very clean. We domesticate ourselves too. Yeah, it's like our antibodies sort of don't know what other threats and what are the friendlies. So, you know, so it was a it was a nice post. When you said that made me remember then how cleanliness isn't always about um positive way of living life, it brings a lot of changes that may not be as positive for the physiology of a human body.

SPEAKER_00 6:01

No, no, that is it's like we're we are become the most domesticated animal on the planet. We have sterilized ourselves so much that we forget that like we are dirt. And we should be playing it, which is which is I'm gonna I'm glad you brought that up too because I remember growing up because I rock I grew up barefooted running around, no shirt, running around in the dirt, playing all this stuff, and we never really get sick. Dr. Ankin. I didn't I don't remember getting that much sick. The only time I remember going to be the hospital because I bust my ass, doing something that I'm not supposed to do, you know, cut my leg, bruise up my knee, or step on a bottle or something and pierce my foot. But I didn't go to the hospital because I had some kind of thing. Because I was dirt, I was in the dirt. I'm not sure if you grew up that way or not, but yeah, I think the sterile environment changed that.

SPEAKER_01 6:47

Yeah, and I because I'm not a a a medical doctor or I'm not a you know physician, so I wouldn't say I wouldn't want to say anything about medicine practice. Even if I have read it, I don't have qualification to preach it. Um but if I look at that from a theoretical lens in human life or organizations or how people are living, um I was taking some, I was doing some interviews at my workplace, and I was taking the notes from my hand. I think my handwriting is okay, but as soon as I start writing with my hands, it gets so scribbly. And I can't write it in just one line. Sometimes something will happen, it will go there, and then the arrow will come there, and I'll start writing somewhere else. Only I can decipher what I have written. It's like if somebody reads it, they'll say, What is going on here?

SPEAKER_00 7:43

Why why do doctors do that?

SPEAKER_01 7:46

And that's the thing. I'm not a medical doctor. It's like in in my head, everything is so clear, but it will come across as messy. Because my mind is trying to mend those models, those different obstacles that come to my mind. And while I'm doing something else, something will sprout from somewhere. And then, you know, automatically things will go back and I have to do this, and it gets messy. So I think it's in our ways of thinking, we are messy people. It's just when we try to get out of our natural way of living, we we don't create a friendly environment for our own existence, I think. And I'm not talking from medicine perspective, but I'm taking that example as an analogy to see how my work life or my professional life, my personal life, my social life would be. That, you know, we we are developing those lenses to see clearer and clearer and clearer. And I feel that there is a substance in in that gloomy, unclear, hazy, foggy stuff that we try to, you know, very quickly move out of. Maybe because we are scared, we can't see it, maybe because we have our own picture of the future where we want to go in, we just leave those tiny bits. I'm more I think I'm more of an outlier. I if if I see a report that has a survey of, hey, 90% people say this is good. I I really it's great. But I want to know those 10% people. Why, what did they say? What was the difference? Is there uh something that we are missing in seeing that clarity? We see 90% is great. Okay, what about those 10%? So I wouldn't say those 10% are marginalized with their views, but what I say is that's where I that's what my argument is that we are so much trying to reconfirm, reaffirm what we want to see and hear that we try to, you know, reason or present our rationale in a way that ah, 10%, who cares? It's 90% is grey. So I think we just created that sort of environment for our own selves. I'm not sure. I don't call it growth, I don't call it development, I'm not sure Darwin can help us on this. Um, it's more it's more we are we're not building lenses to see those who have left behind because of our um what's the word generalized view of what we want to see.

SPEAKER_00 10:25

Guess what we want to talk about today? I I I I got some stuff prepared. I would love to poke your brain because I know you are you have so much acting there. So um I have a list of maxims and some of these things I would I will read them off a little bit and then just kind of see what pops in your head when you hear those, right? I've been I've been doing this with a couple of them, I guess, on the podcast, but I have a bunch on here, and I would love to see where you where your brain is coming from. So for the audience that's listening, right? Uh today we're gonna put together a collection of maxims. The academic definition, a maxim is a short statement expressing a general truth or rule or conduct. But I want to work on this definition. A maxim is a statement that makes sense without any context. You read it cold and you get it. If it needs explaining, it's a talking point, not a maxim. If it passes the test, it goes anywhere in your life. So how we use them. So we're gonna play this little game here. Is um for each maxim, we look at two angles. The steel man is the strongest case for it being true. The straw man is the real pushback against it. The takeaway is where the truth lands when you hold both sides at once. We're gonna read these straight stories and see what sparks. Some might trigger an idea you've been sitting on, some might challenge something you believe. That's the point. This is your thinking session. So I'm gonna just kind of read this first version here and then we can start talking back and forth. So, for example, here, winning, so the maximum winning the wrong game is the real loss. And the Steelman version of this is you can climb for 20 years, reach the top, and realize the ladder was against the wrong wall. So imagine someone who chose medicine at 16, they spent years in school, got the degree, built the practice, they won, and they're miserable. The person who failed at something they cared about is further ahead than a person who won at something they didn't. Now, the straw man side of that one is sometimes you don't know it's the wrong game until you win it. You need to play to learn. The loss of winning wrong is also the education that teaches you what the right game looks like. Now, the takeaway is the straw man strengthen the maxim. The real question becomes how fast do you recognize you're in the wrong game? And do you have the courage to walk away from a win? So back to the maxim: winning the wrong game is the real loss. When you hear those words, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_01 12:55

It's very interesting, and I've never played this game. So thank you for introducing you. Well, I understand Maxim uh from this. And correct me if I'm wrong, is this something like um pens speak, you know, um louder than the sword, something, those kind of things, you know? One my statements that can come out of context, uh, but has a deeper meaning associated with it, which I'm trying to see that how winning the wrong game is a real loss. And I think it it's quite interesting if I see that. Um, you know, when we talk about our societies, and this is what comes to my mind. I I don't know. So we have different sections of people that are judged on their status based on how much money they have, what wealth they carry, what jobs they do, what cars they drive, what houses they live in, what phones they use, what food they eat, what restaurants they go to, all these kinds of things. And we can see if I if I look at from a very generalized lens, and if we put these people together, our mind judge them based on how they are, they wear the clothes. Okay, and uh the the restaurant they are sitting in and the money they are paying in. So if I go and talk to them, which I have to few people, they are as stressed, as in problems, as stuck as thinking about growing, still thinking they have not done enough, still feeling the miseries of every day, still finding themselves entangled in the day-to-day struggles. And then if I go to people who are at bare minimum or who are trying to develop their life to at certain level, um no competition, but at certain level, can I go and they feel the same? So the challenge in my head was then or is when I look up what is the purpose? Are you winning the wrong game? And that's what comes to my mind. Um because is the purpose gaining more money, more wealth, more status, for all those? But for what? So I'm I'm not sure if we can identify a society's growth just because how many millionaires or billionaires are there? If we look at the wealth of a society that might come from um well-being, but also that comes from happiness, um, and which is a very absurd term to be honest. I don't know how to describe happiness. If somebody can, that's great. But some people derive happiness from all those things they have. Some people are very happy with struggles, some people cannot function unless there is struggle. Like, you know, I had students in my class, and I used to tell them uh the group work when they used to do, and they were like so many different cultures. And I used to tell them, um please remember you are five people in a group. There are certain people who start their work towards an assignment on day one when it's given. And then there are certain people who will start working three days before the deadline. There is no right and wrong. The challenge is how you how you all five work in a manner that you all understand each other's ways of working so you can complement when they're gonna start, when they're not gonna start. Otherwise, you're gonna have a tussle and you have this view of why you're not starting or why you're starting so early and all those. And I used to ask my students, I used to say, tell me, um, when um when you were a kid, what's the point when you think that no, no, I have to do it now? And quite a lot of people said when it is very close to the deadline. I cannot really work if it's like two months in deadline. I can't, my mind doesn't work like this. Some people will thrive under pressure. So what I'm trying to say is there is no one way to determine the wrong game that I'm winning. Because I'm unsure that if I have won yet. So I'm not sure if there is a finish line to this, and that is why we keep running and we are moving in a direction, I think, but we don't know where the finish line is. So Usen Bolt runs hundred meters at full pace, and then he will stop after the finish line. So he can give all his energy to that first 9-10 seconds or less seconds that he takes. After that, he'll cool off. We don't know that. So I'm not sure if I know him if I'm in the wrong game or if I have won that game. So although the maxim says this the ladder against the wrong wall or wrong ladder against the wall, I don't know it. So we are still in that unknown, unknown phase. Because we haven't defined the possibilities of finishing. Um, I'm not sure whether it comes from economics that we are greedy people. And greediness is not wrong or bad or not good or positive. I'm not saying from those adjective perspectives. I'm saying we are greedy people. If I have $10, I have $100. If I have $100, I want $1,000. What's the point when we say we have enough? If somebody says yes, we have enough, probably they have found a finish line. And then we can reflect back and say, hmm, were we playing the wrong game? So I'm unsure when to reflect on it to do justice to this max scene. Whether I'm in a wrong game or have won the wrong game, because I don't know whether I have won or lost anything. I'm living. I'm living. I just don't know. Yesterday when I was walking, and I was thinking about the podcast because when when you send the email, my mind goes a day or two before into thinking a lot of things. And I was walking and I was thinking, I was reading the post about from Nobel committee. Uh today they posted when I was getting ready about Einstein's theory of uh relativity. And they said they were posting 2017 was the year when there was a let's say the solar eclipse. And in 1919, they tested it. Um I think Edington tested it, and they found that yes, Einstein's theory is correct, that uh gravity bends light. Because the only way to test was uh during the solar eclipse so that they can see the light. And um, but he never received a Nobel Prize for that general relativity. He got uh Nobel Prize for photo uh photoelectronic effect. I think photoelectronic effect, and um my mind goes from this perspective that whenever we are trying to see something clearly, we need darkness. It's just I don't know whether that could be a maxim. Because whenever we are trying to see something clearly, we need darkness. Is it because of concentration? Is it because our senses pick up so many things while there is light that we don't have enough energy to focus on one thing because we feel destructive? But when we put everything in dark, our senses pick up the only thing that they can sense, which see. I mean, I can sense in darkness if somebody's standing behind me, but it's more about this idea of what my eyes see, what my brain thinks, how that energy is emitted. So darkness brings more knowledge than the light. So I'm not sure you know this is another maxim. So I can come up with different maxim while we talk, while this is going on, but it's fascinating idea of maxim because you one must dig deep into understanding it, unpacking it, not reading it the way it reads, not taking the game as wrong because the maxim says it. We need to understand how we can identify what wrong means in a game and whether we have understood before discussing or trying to unpack the winning or losing. So I wouldn't want to jump from one part of the maxim to another part unless I have figured out this part. Otherwise, I'm living under an assumption which I may or may not believe or think it is to be factual or truth. I don't know. So it's fascinating to talk about Maxim, but that's what came to my mind when you said that.

SPEAKER_00 21:17

I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast. Before we continue, I have a gift for you. Since 2016, I have read and listened to over 900 books so far. It's gonna be a thousand. And I organized them into a library and I handpicked the top 100 books I recommend to my clients, my friends, and the people in my community. Books on storytelling, language, and personal growth, and building something from your own life. If you're watching this podcast and you're looking for your next great read, this library is your gift. It is free. Go to AsherAlbertWright.com and check out the 1000 book challenge. This is my gift to you. Now back to the conversation. You just dropped some some real good juice right there. And that's why I'm picking your mind. I think I got another one. Let's try this other one here. And it says, a mistake is proof you moved. A regret is proof you didn't. So the Steelman version of this. Mistake requires action. You had to try something for it to go wrong. A regret means you sat still. The person with a list of mistakes has a resume. The person with a list of regret has a wish list. The straw man version of this. Some mistakes destroy things that couldn't be rebuilt, that can't be rebuilt. Relationship trust held. Sometimes the person who waited was wiser than the person who jumped. Now the takeaway here is both sides are real. Not all mistakes are equal. But at the end of life, people regret inaction far more than action. The research confirmed this. And you were talking earlier too about what game are you winning? When you think about, do I want to win the date to the debt, the debt deadline, right? Because there's a it's called deadline for a minute because you're going dead at that line, right? So if I'm chasing to get to the deadline, who in a rush? I don't want to win that game. Do you?

SPEAKER_01 23:12

You said a very interesting thing about that maxim that you read about C-Men. Um, it's when we talk about inaction, it is an action. There's no inaction, to be honest. You think there is. But we cannot not act. Even not acting, according to somebody, this is acting, and not acting is an acting on it. So when we talk about regrets, and I don't want to go into the hindsight trap because we have already covered in the last episode, but if we look at this idea of regret and thinking in the future when we were there and thinking about the past with respect to the inaction or action, what are we trying to determine what we could have done and why we could have done that? So this idea of painting a picture backwards, something that I'm painting now, and then I turn it upside down. My view will definitely change of that painting. So if I have a pyramid upside down, it will be, you know, what do you call invert pyramid? I will see it very differently. But if I put something down if I put a pyramid the way it is, then I'll see the bottom part to be broad. Means, let's say theoretically, if we talk about um something that I need to pay more attention to, need to work more to gain something better and better and better and better. And there are some stages, for example. If I invert the pyramid, I need to start at something that is very minuscule, but I need to figure it out how it is balancing the whole pyramid. I'm just bringing out two ideas to look at the same thing. One is in one direction, the and and it's if it's inverted. Same thing when we look at this idea of inaction and action, we see when you say it, and if I look at it from that perspective, they are not two things, they are one thing. It's all about action. Even if you're not doing anything, that in itself is doing something. If I look at something as the base to be very broad and I to figure that out, or something if I if it's on the scale tipping like this, I I need to understand what balances this. This is far more difficult than something at the at the base. So this idea of inverting and going in the past and trying to, it's very difficult to balance it because you can't really balance it again. It's in the past. But if you try to see, okay, I want to build my future based on what has happened in the past, and I'm gonna learn from it. So Ankir, I'm not gonna be in hindsight trap, as you said. I will learn from it. But then are we learning from what we didn't do versus what we did? So we are not focused when we are looking backwards on what we did and why we did it. We said, why we didn't do it. So we are in this phase of looking at the same thing, but from a different perspective. That won't give us the same result, of course. And that is why we keep thinking about, oh, I should have acted like that. Because in the future, you have already inverted the stuff while you look back. It is not the same way you are painting it while you are moving. So it is quite challenging for me to. It's very fascinating, but it's challenging how we see the same thing in a different light when we are in a different point in time and we inverse it. And we start thinking, oh, we should have done that. But it wasn't like this, it was a broad base. You are trying to figure it out. Now that you have figured it out, you have inverted it. And now you are trying to figure it out, oh, I should have acted like this, thinking of something else. But that wasn't the case there. It is a little different from hindsight trap. But this is again this idea of that how we are not looking at the same thing that we were doing in the past. We are looking at it from a different lens. So the whole meaning, aspect, philosophy, the view has changed. So now we have an opportunity to move and start thinking that maybe we can invert it and start drawing it in version. And then we can, whatever we are saying, oh, we shouldn't have done that, we should have done that. Let's try it now. So it isn't so much that we can't change it, it's like, like, let's try it now. Let's not do what we have done because I think we could have done this, let's do it now. And we try to do it in organizational view by giving training to people, which is really absurd. We bring thought leaders or we'll bring somebody for one day, we will ask all the people sit in the class for a whole day. And and those people are great because they have so much wealth of experience because they are learning from it. Oh, I should, I should have said that to these people. Oh, I shouldn't have said that to people. So they are continuously growing. Okay. And then the bunch of people sitting in the class listen to them, said, Wow, great. We can also do this. And we go back to our workplace, say, same. So we are not, we are not really learning from our inaction, if I can say that, because it is an action in our own self. We have started developing our future in a certain manner. So this idea of inaction regrets is fascinating because it's in the mind rather than out there. But because it's in the mind, we put it out there and we start believing it to be true. And this energy of belief is so strong that if you inherently believe in something, your mind starts giving it a shape. And once it starts giving it a shape, you start chasing it. Once you start chasing it, you start discovering that it exists. While it didn't, your mind projected that and you're running. And now we're going in a very philosophical view, but it has that power inside us that if we truly believe in something, our mind creates that image and we chase in everything is happening here actually. We're chasing that and we are acting outside. We are chasing that, we are acting outside. So when we are chasing that and we are acting outside, whatever we are projecting here, we sort of create outside as well. And when we reach there, we say, Yes, see, we were so believed we believed in it and we reached it. Well, you believed here, you were just creating that image. Of course, you're gonna. There's nothing else that you can do but to really chase your beliefs. It's very, very interesting with respect to how we call something inaction, action, or we call something regret. You know. So, yeah, you just made me think about this that the power of mind, the power of belief in the projecting what we are thinking outside world and chasing it. I mean, I can imagine it right now, what I would have done, what I did since I was, let's say, 12 years old. I can see the house, I can see the people, I can see what I was thinking. Such a dumb kid, I was seriously, I'm not joking. I I think, and um uh I don't think so I'm any different now, but in that dumbness, I've found a very good friendship with my own self. I have realized that how much I you you you you are your own dumb friend? I'm my own dumb friend, and that is perfectly fine because there's nobody to judge me. And this this idea of being a dumb friend to my own self is so good because you know we can talk whatever. And we can figure it out that ah, all the regrets, all the inaction, inaction. But once we realize that we are together, I don't think so I regret all of my past or think about inaction. It's just we are past is together with me. The dumbness. I haven't given up. I don't want to give it. I think that dumbness defines me in a certain manner, the who I am. You know, I I don't like always talking about uh always talking to the book. I'll I don't like follow protocols all the time with respect to making decisions. That's not because I'm um um what do you call it? I'm an outlaw. No, I'm not. I've I play within the boundaries of the society, but there are certain things that can or cannot be done in my head, and that's how my ethical boundaries are defined or described. So that dumb friend helps me. I do things that sometimes think, why did I do it? But then I enjoy it.

SPEAKER_00 31:41

So here's something interesting. Because I don't think there's a real system that can measure your dumbness or can measure your smartness. I mean, we're trying to use school to measure somebody's like how smart they are, but but this can you really measure how stupid somebody can be? Which that makes you like, oh yeah, I get to go there and just try out some things. Like, how if I look like an idiot, sound like a fool, it doesn't matter. I'm exploring. But sometimes the system is is keep you trapped because you can measure how smart you are. Like, oh, I got to tell how smart you are. Oh, you're this smart. Well, I don't want that limitation on myself.

SPEAKER_01 32:15

That's the same thing about 90% and 10% that I said earlier with respect to how we when we get 90%, you're very happy. We don't worry about the 10%. When I was a kid in school, we used to do a lot of dumb stuff. So then people used to call us stupid. We used to feel really bad, really, really hurt. We were kids like so people started creating um stupid as an acronym to a full form. I'm not really hurt. They call whenever somebody calls stupid, you get so excited because it means super talented, unique person in demand. Oh so this idea of creating this fascination around us that even if somebody calls you stupid, you find something hilarious and feel good. It shows to me, you know, if I reflect back, it shows to me that whatever has happened, you can derive whatever meaning you want to derive from. Whether you call something dumb or somebody calls something smart. I'm sure when Einstein was um having these ideas of gravity bends light, I'm sure there was lots of resistance from the physics, you know, fraternity where they were calling about, hey, what this guy is talking about. I'm sure there are some people who were very interested in it, and some people, unless it was proven. For example. So everybody starts dumb somewhere. I I mean the beginning is dumb. Yes, how can you be genius without being dumb at some point in your life? So I don't see dumbness as something problematic because I think it could be a beginning of that genius that is hidden somewhere in those 10% that is not being looked at right now. So the fascination with numbers is great, but the fascination with percentages to be more and more and more without focusing on why less exists is dumb. So I don't know whether there is any genius in that. There is a possibility of finding geniuses by looking at things that we call down that people do. And it's like reprogramming our mind or rewiring our mind into seeing things that naturally we are not looking at it. So we look at winners. Every I I used to read elsewhere who knows who's number two? Who was number two runner-up in Olympics? Or who was number two um um deputy? Or people people don't look at everybody saying, Oh, if you're not a winner, you're a loser. Uh, another maxim. Defining people based on number one, saying number two doesn't really exist. And now we are in a rat race of us not winning. No, not winning. We are not chasing the winning, we are chasing being number one, defeating the person running next to us. So if there's a difference in my view, if I try to win something versus if I try to be number one, I can be number two and I can still be the winner because I broke my own record. I'm still a winner. But in the grand scheme of things, I'm a loser because there was some number one. So am I defining winning through the position of me being at number one, or I'm defining winning through my own best thing every single time. So I keep thinking of Einstein because I read it in the morning and I'm crazy about these theories. Um, the documentary that I was seeing on that uh National Geographic about the genius. The first one was um on Einstein. And one of the episodes, he was with his girlfriend and they were cycling on the side. I think they were in Germany, Italy, Switzerland, Germany, I don't know, I don't remember. They were cycling, and suddenly Einstein realized, ah, so great, I found it, and she's what when you when you cycle, two people cycle at the same rate at the same time, to both of them they are stationary, they are not human, but to others, they are moving. So let's put this idea into this theory that we were talking about just now of winning in number one. If we don't try to defeat our competition, but we try to match the pace. We are moving fast for the world, but for to both of us, we would be stationary. Now there is a opportunity to grow because to us we are stationary. We can do more than we match a pace and we increase and we increase it. We keep on increasing, but we are always as stationary to each other. So we have opportunity to do more and more and more and more and more, rather than one winning and saying, hey, we won it. So again, coming back to it, it's not it's not something, the game that is wrong. I don't know when to win. When should I decide that yes, I have won? Because if I'm chasing number one, unless I become number one, I have not won the game. But if I'm chasing the winning, I might have won it multiple times. I just don't realize it. I might have ran 100 meters at 15 seconds, then 14, then 13.5, then 13, 12.75, 12. This is all winnings, but still not number one. So if we work together with each other to build that pace, we can continuously winning and continuously growing. Being stationary, another maxim. We grow further, we move faster when we walk together. To us, we may experience stationary, but to others, we would be moving faster than the speed of light. So this idea of competing with other people, not to win, but to gain number one position. There's two different things. Being number one isn't about winning, it's about defeating. Because winning doesn't require number one.

SPEAKER_00 38:14

Depends on the winning does require being number one. I've never heard that been said like that before.

SPEAKER_01 38:24

Copyright, IP.

SPEAKER_00 38:27

All right, let's let's grab another one. Let's grab another one here. Alright, this one is kind of deep. Okay. It says the money fades, the people stay. Remember that while you still have both. So the Steelman concept here. The richest man in history sat down at 70 to write his memoir. First chapter, first sentence, the mem memories were people. At the end, what becomes known is relationships are the signal. The straw man, easy to say when you have money. The person struggling to feed their family with trade relationship for cash without hesitation. The maxim is a luxury statement from the wealthy. Takeaway, the straw man has teeth. The maxim isn't saying money doesn't matter, it's saying that if you sacrifice the people to get the money, you arrive at the end with a pile of cash and no one to share it with. The order matters. What comes to mind for you when you hear those words?

SPEAKER_01 39:20

I'm stuck on two things. One is noise and one is money. And because that's what I heard in there. So there was an exercise that I did, which my supervisor, PhD supervisor, taught me as well. This idea of money. So I asked my students in the class, um, and many over many years I've asked this to a lot of students. I said, Do you think money motivates you? Most hands money goes up. Money. Okay. I said, money motivates you? Okay. And I said, Today, if I prove that money is not a motivator, would you listen to me? And they all laugh at me because I do a lot of jokes in class. So they think that being another joke. So I said, okay, I will I will give you an exercise and you tell me if you want to do it. I said, okay. And they said, be honest. I said, okay. I have um four blocks across the road, my office is on 10th floor. I mean, my past office was on 10th floor. And I said, go there. There's a pile of 20 hardcover books that you need to yourself pick up and take it to the library, which is further down, you know, four blocks, and on my behalf, give it back to the library. How many of you will do it? Some people really like me and they said, Yeah, yeah, we'll do it. I said, And some people don't. So I focus on people who are not saying they will do it. I said, I'll give you $10. No. $100, some hands go up. $500, all hands go up. And I said, okay. So you're motivated by money. I said, yay. I said, okay. Now the same exercise. You have to go to my level 10, pick those books up, 20 hardcover, walk down, give it to the library. I will give you $500, but I will cross it off and I will write on it. You cannot use. Would you do it? All hands go down. Some people who said that we will do it anyways, their hands are up. But okay. Now we are discussing. I am giving you $500. Why are you not doing it? Well, you're giving it us, but we can't use it. So money isn't the motivation. It's the purpose you're gonna use that money for could be your motivation. I wanna buy a house, I need a deposit, I need money. I wanna buy a motorcycle, I need money. So there's something deeper that could be my motivation. Or we can go further deeper than that. I like to ride and enjoy my freedom and I classify bike to give me that. That's fine. But I'm saying money is a medium to achieve what you want to achieve because that's the currency of society these days for transactions. If we go back in in our in in past lives and we bring in the barter system, then money has no value. The shirt and the trousers and the rice wheat might have more value than that. So the other thing, this aspect of money and um this point of reference to it is challenging in my head. Because if we keep money at the center of our discussion, that our discussion only revolves around money, then we don't know any better. So, are we are we thinking about um money as our mode of living a satisfactory life? Or are we thinking of having $100,000 sitting on a table, but I don't want to use it? I just want to feel that I have that money. That may be a motivation. I don't know what kind of motivation that would be. But just having a money in the bank, not using it, see, that's what I want. That's what I want. My bank balance to go up. I'm sure economists will say you are crazy. Because I was checking with AI a few years back and I said, Hey, um, I use one AI. I don't want to say the name here. Like, you know, I don't want to brand a particular AI agent over others because every no free marketing.

SPEAKER_00 43:21

No free marketing.

SPEAKER_01 43:22

Yeah, but I don't want to brand because if I haven't used it, and I will say, hey, this is great. And if some people like what I say, they might start following it, may not find it great. So there are other things as well. So that's not the point. The point is to me, I used an AI and I said, if I want one million dollar today, and I put that one million dollar in my bank with no interest on it, just back. What will be the value of my one million dollar when I turn sixty after seventeen years? And he said seven hundred and sixty two thousand dollars. So I said, What about two hundred and thirty? Well, that's the value of $1 million today versus the value after 17 years. It isn't so much that I'm gonna keep money and become wealthy. No, because that's how inflation, indexation, and all these things work. It's in my mind again. Just because I have that money, I feel I'm rich. I still buy $2 t-shirts, I still, you know, fight, go to Colts and Bullies and fight between 70 cent tin to a $1 tin or $1.10 and $1.20. What? What? So I am not sure if money is what motivation is that we are talking about. It is something very deeper and personal to people. Some people really like having money on their table and not using it. So that $500, if I cross it off, they don't really want to do it because they can't see the use of it. They don't want to use it ever, but they can see $500 sitting on their table and they're happy that they have $500. So we cannot really dictate people to think in a certain manner. We can't say, oh, you're thinking wrong. You know, there's no economists who will say you are crazy. You know, AI is saying you're crazy, those $500. No, that's what people think, that's what people feel, that's how people are. So with respect to this maxim, it's fascinating that everything revolved around money. While what I thought the maxim was telling me that there is only one way of looking at money. While my view is there is no one way. Even I don't look at money in the same way if I have slept very nicely for eight, nine hours. Versus on a day when I sleep only for three hours, my view of money changes. When I am in emotional turmoil, emotional disturbances, lots of social pressures, my view of money changes. It's a fluid state of mind that describes what money means to me in a certain context, in a certain point of time, in my certain life. So I'm unsure about this maxim with respect to money. Um yeah, and what was the other thing?

SPEAKER_00 46:03

It um came out of my the money fades, the people stay. Remember that while you still have both. So it's people and money. Do you like people, Asher? I love people.

SPEAKER_01 46:16

What's the difference between like and love? Because you didn't repeat like, you said love. So I'm sure there's a great significance to that.

SPEAKER_00 46:23

Okay, so I love people because when I love people, I feel like I feel like I'm not alone. When I like people, I get very choosy. Like, oh. But when I love people, like I'm gonna do this because I love people. Like I wake up in every day in love with trying to find a way to help people, right? So I think me just thinking about I love people is just me just saying that I love people because I love myself.

SPEAKER_01 46:46

What about you don't like yourself?

SPEAKER_00 46:48

I like myself too.

SPEAKER_01 46:50

Then what's the difference between like and love?

SPEAKER_00 46:52

Oh, that's a great question. We have to we have to find a scale. We have to find a scale is there's if it's on a scale or not. Maybe just maybe maybe just terminology, but it's the feeling probably very close.

SPEAKER_01 47:05

Like, you know, like we discussed last time uh when we chatted regarding how um we humans are well, we are emotional creatures, and we exaggerate our feelings using a certain word because they are emotionally driven. Love comes with so much driven emotions. I can like my phone, I can like my hard drive, I can like my iPod, I can like my butt will come at a certain point of time towards a certain thing to which we feel so emotionally inclined with. I love my Marvel toys, let's say. I won't say I I like this acting. I will, but say I love this acting. I like this acting. I love this acting. I think it's it's more, it's just my view. It's not a branded new. It's when we are emotionally inclined towards something, it transforms in our head from like to love. And there's no other way for me to describe what that is. We're just too emotionally guided by our feelings. Transforms.

SPEAKER_00 48:12

Love has more poetry. Like could be too logical.

SPEAKER_01 48:17

Well, that could be another maxim, Asher. Right? It's um these these maxims are amazing. It makes me think about a lot of things about myself, my views of myself, my view of the world, the dumb kid that I am still inside, the dumbness that really helps me question a lot of things, to be honest, Asher, that I see in this world around me. I question it. Not because of there is any intellect or intelligence. I think we are all intelligible in some way. It's that dumbness. That dumb view gives more perspective and meaning to something that may or may not exist. Again, that 10%, not the 90%. So whenever I focus on this dumbness, I find more reasons to query things. Some people might find a bit why are you asking? It's common sense, it's not to me. So I need to ask a bit more. And then in that conversation, we get to more intelligent things. Not saying people to be more intelligent, intelligent things, some things that are worth discovering, worth unpacking, worth realizing about our own selves. I find that interesting conversation. So that dumb kid is absolutely valuable to me.

SPEAKER_00 49:37

This episode is sponsored by Live Chinese Marketplace, the home for hearters who own their stories and their business. Your book, your merch, your audience. One storefront, you keep 80%, you own your customer list, you build a relationship, real relationship with the readers. If that sounds like the way you want to run your business, visit lifechangingwisdom.com. It's fun to be dumb. And and it's and I don't mind being in good company of myself. If I'm in good company with myself and I'm dumb, I'm enjoying me. But you're smart and you're miserable because you're in bad company with yourself.

SPEAKER_01 50:17

The challenge to me is I don't know how to describe good or bad. I am in a company. I don't know how to. So for example, I let's say if I have a friend and I find, yes, great company to be in, and then let's say he cheated me in the business. Now he became a bad company.

SPEAKER_00 50:37

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 50:38

So it's context dependent. Yeah, yeah. So it's like context dependent that how I identify a certain company to be, you know, companions to be with. At one point they might be really good, but later on they might be really bad. So I think it's very subjective with respect to how my experiences have been with those people that will be bad or good for me, but not that company would be bad or good. I might view it. Others might still view it really great. I might start feeling it. So I think it's it's amazing how we identify the meaning to our experiences and what we see and what we feel through the lens of how it affects us. Moving away. And slowly we move away from how that thing is in it in its own. Like mouse is a mouse. If my hands are bigger, ah, this mouse is really, you know, not really comfortable. Mouse is a mouse. It's nothing to do about comfort. Some hands are okay with it. So we call this, ah, that's really bad mouse. No, it isn't. It's a mouse. It's your experience with it, is problematic because of your circumstances. So we brand people, item, stuff, good or bad, without realizing it is our experiences with them, not them. If we equate people with this mouse, they are just who they are. Our experiences change. When I'm 12 year old, my hands are small, this mouse is great. I'm 40 year old, my hands are big, this mouse is not great. Come on. So I think we are we are subjective, inherently meaning-making, sense-making, emotional, emotionally driven entities in this planet. And everything and anything that we identify is through the length of uh lens of emotions and how it affects us. So we forget that those things, people, objects remain as they are. And if we are focusing on the experiences, we can better our companionship rather than blaming the people. So I don't think people are not problems. Problems are problems. Once we create problems to people, we forget that once this mouse was very comfortable in my hand.

SPEAKER_00 53:06

You know, you you you know, you you remind me of this quote by Dan Sullivan, too. It's one of my favorite quotes he has. It says, The problem is not the problem, but our thinking about the problem is the problem. Well, we do. So every time the the like the mouse is not the problem. How you think about the mouse is the problem. Yeah, it becomes a problem.

SPEAKER_01 53:27

And you make me think about this. It's so great that you use that uh quote, Asher. Five o'clock, freezing temperature, and raining, crazy. Oh, such a bad day. I don't want to go out. And I will not go out, let's say. But if I ended up going out and I had wonderful experience at something, so I've already decided in my mind that something outside, without me experiencing it, based on what I thought in the past, is to be true. And we lose that opportunity. So as soon as we equate our emotions to something, someone, we forget that it's the companionship, it's that experience that will allow us to see that para or identify it whether it is good or bad. But unless we have those experiences, we wouldn't know that. Everything and anything in this world could be untrue. Our experiences to ourselves are the most honest truth we have. We can lie about them, we can lie to ourselves about them, but the experiences that we have gone through would remain as they are. And of course, they are some sort of interpretation of what we feel in those experiences, yes, and they're subjective in a way, but they're my experiences. They are true to how I feel about them. Other people might not know. I think we objectify our reality quite a lot. We equate a lot of stuff with respect to numbers and percentages, and they have their value, that's fine. But in that value, we sort of miss out on those people who are not focused upon because they are not in that league, according to us. And we start identifying them as problematic or their view as problematic or their approach as problematic. So just we are living in a very cruel world, I think, sometimes. Beautiful world, but cruel world, because we are driven by um generalizations.

SPEAKER_00 55:31

I have four closing questions, but I also have this other maxim. I'm not sure if you have time for one more maxim and four closing questions. Okay, okay, all right, let's go with this other one. And this one says, the more dead people you study, the less you worry about what you might lose. And the Steelman version is um here. When you read about people who risk what they had, lost it, rebuilt from scratch, and still died eventually, your own fears start to look like to look smaller. These stories give you permission to start. Your fear of loss is just a lack of perspective. The straw man side of it, reading about other people's courage is not the same as having your own. You can read 500 biographies and still freeze when it's your own savings, your career, your family on the line. Knowing about someone else's bravery doesn't transfer automatically. Takeaway, studying dead people doesn't eliminate fear, it reduces the illusion that you have something permanent to protect. You don't, they didn't. The difference is they move anyway. What are you thoughts pops in your head when you heard those words?

SPEAKER_01 56:41

You will laugh if I say that. What popped in my head was CPR.

SPEAKER_00 56:47

Really?

SPEAKER_01 56:48

Because I was doing some first aid training. Um my test is next Saturday. And um they had YouTube videos of um the trainer there showing how to give CPR. So first we need to read, then we need to watch a video, then we need to give a test, and then we need to go there and perform. So if I look at from this maxim, just because I read and my mind thinks I know, it may not be that I can do it. Okay, now let's watch it. Now that I have watched it, my visual senses have gained it, and this is how my mind thinks. The picture has been laid out, and I can close my eyes and relive and relive and relive and see myself instead of trainer and doing it. I'm closer to it. But can I do it? I don't know. Now let's give a test. Do I remember everything? Yes, I passed that. I remember everything. So I've I've read it, I've watched it, I've been tested. Can I still do it? I don't know because I haven't done it. So now I have to go there and do it. The moment I do it, I will not forget it. Because now every single sense has picked up. And over and over and over and over I do it, the more natural it gets. So I can do it even in my sleep. It's like riding a bicycle or swimming. Even if you leave it for 20, 30 years, 40 years, you won't forget it. I'm sure that's how it works. I have not, I didn't ride bicycle for 20 years, but that day my neighbor kids came in and I wrote, it was great. So, this idea of tacit knowledge, the idea of this thing that our whole nervous system gains and we understand, we can't give that up. That is why it is very important to learn and know what you are learning. And people say learn by doing or doing by learning. I don't know all that. What I'm focusing on, that if we believe, again to the first maxim, if we believe that we have learned something, there is a possibility that if we don't try it, we may live under the illusion that we can do it. And when the opportunity comes in, I don't know whether we can. We may or we may not. But if we test it before that, then we can be 100% sure, possibly, if we can ever be 100% sure about anything, that yes, we can do it. This is one of the reasons why we have those um crazy heartbeats and stomach butterflies when we try to do something new. We have read about it, we have got the degrees. Apparently, all these education great, wonderful institutes have given us degrees, so we are capable. But once we go there doing it for the first time, we're like, ugh. Because we have only read it. We our our whole nervous system hasn't figured it out yet. We haven't really done it. I can tell you how it feels to open this, take this out, and put it in my ear, and how the voice is. I can I can tell you a lot of things. I can show you the studies and all. Until you do it, you wouldn't know what I'm telling you. You think you know. You you think you understand what I'm telling you. No, not unless you do it. Oh, I know. Um there was a um there was a thing in class where people were talking about, yeah, yeah, I know, I know. It was like an I know class. So I said, okay, do you all know how to ride a bicycle? Now some people said yes, but oh sorry, some people said no, but most said yes, we know how to ride a bicycle. Okay. The people who don't know how to ride a bicycle, please tell them how to balance. Go on, you know, right? Yes. Then tell them. And they were all looking at it. They said, Oh, you know, you have to just sit on the sit on the bicycle and start paddling. And the person said, How? But I will fall down, isn't it? Yeah, but you have to balance. So I said, What is this balance? I don't know. Uh put training wheels. I said, Yeah, training wheels, but you need to tell them balance without that training wheels. Just explain what that balance means. No one was able to explain. And I said, Well, I can't explain either. I know it. That doesn't mean I can explain it to you. So this idea of yes, I know it, I can teach it, it's problematic. We can give you some idea about what I know, but unless you do it and we do it together and we practice it together, you wouldn't know it. The day you start balancing, you will say, Ah, I know what you were saying. Now we're talking the same language. But till the time you do it, you wouldn't, you wouldn't, you think you would know. You know, all those things that I'm telling how to ride a bicycle, you think you have understood how to ride a bicycle. If only I can swim by being taught, not going into the water, everybody will be a great swimmer and all these institutes will close down. So there is a there is a very um interesting view of the world when we think we know something versus the people who have done it, and that's what we call wisdom.

SPEAKER_00 1:02:03

Mm-hmm. Application.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:06

Yeah, it isn't so much coming from my view of it, but we have tried it, we have tested it. Sometimes it works. In these contexts, it just don't work. That's the wisdom. So when you talk to somebody who have done something, the respect doesn't come from that person, it's that wisdom they carry. So if those if us young generation start saying, ah, we know better, we have AI, we have asked so many questions, we have this knowledge, versus people who are working in that field, we sort of lose an opportunity to gain that wisdom through them. They can provide us more insights that then we need to go and test it as well. So, this idea of doing it without knowing versus knowing it, thinking that you can do, both are absurd and problematic. So it's challenging in my head until I figure out that whatever I have been hearing and seeing and reading, I need to go and test it. Now I can talk with authority. Azure, that didn't work for me. And we can have a conversation now. But if I say, Azure, I don't think so, that's gonna work for me.

SPEAKER_00 1:03:15

That's an opinion. Opinion and authority is not the same.

SPEAKER_01 1:03:17

Yeah, and everybody's entitled for their opinion. But that's it, it's an opinion. You yourself are not hundred percent sure. That's why you're a bit saying, I don't think so, it will work. Don't think so. Rather than it will not work for me. If you say with assertiveness, it will not work for me, okay. Tell me why. Oh, because I've done this, this, this, this, this. So it's fascinating, this idea of doing and learning. Um, the moment our senses pick it up, our hands touch it, our eyes see it, our body feels it, our brain registers it, those neural networks starts bubbling around, fiddling around with things, and oh, riding bicycle. Oh, this is how it balanced, this is how it balanced. Our mind is calibrating and recalibrating what those people were telling up uh in class about balancing, and then we balance. Mind needs to go through that process of recalibration and calibration of what we have read and listened to and watched before it can figure it out for yourself. So being overconfident about the brain, getting all these impulses and doing it, it's dangerous. Can be. There might be some geniuses who can read a book and know exactly how it is to be done. And there are geniuses like this. I'm talking about people like us with respect, well, I shouldn't say us, but me, who wants to understand what I'm reading, seeing, talking, hearing, touching, feeling by doing it. So that it makes sense to me. So I can then go and talk from my experience, feeling good that I've talked about my experiences rather than my opinions, which I may not believe either. So, you know, it's it's fascinating that how many things that we know we can't teach. Balance is one of those.

SPEAKER_00 1:05:06

No, I I like what you say about the the measuring piece, because you know I talk to a lot of people about the same idea. So it's like, you know, oftentimes in your imagination, the scenario lives. But all you're measuring against is just your imagination after imagination, but no application you measure, like you need the application to measure against so you can recalibrate. But if you if you don't have a first time testing the thing and doing anything, you can like you can measure my imagination against the application. I do it again, I can measure against application against application. All you have is is only imagination, then it's a different experience.

SPEAKER_01 1:05:40

And I think Einstein would be Einstein said, Knowledge is limited. Imagine, imagination encircles the world. So he was talking about his thought experimentations. He did everything in thought experimentation, like those um that testing of uh theory of relativity, the gravity bends light during. The you know solar eclipse, he did absurd calculations in his mind even before they were tested, and they were accurate. So imagination has immense value, but then there is a challenge. Is it the imagination that we are focusing on, or is it our view of what we are imagining? So when I think this is how I interpret Einstein, I can't I can't I'm to say that I can interpret what Einstein meant means would be like so arrogant. I don't know what he means. This is how I interpret it. It's knowledge is limited, means all the facts that are there, the science has told us, it's limited because it is growing in itself. You know, last time we said there was a point where people believe there is earth and there is an edge and people will fall off, and now it's a sphere. So it's knowledge is limited, you know. Imagination encircles the world. I can imagine myself flying. But then it isn't about being a Superman, it's about how it is making me feel that I'm levitating. I'm light. The atmosphere around me is sort of very light that I see myself levitating. Now I'm trying to figure it out is that atmosphere can it be created? Now the thing comes to my mind is vacuum. Let's say. So this idea of imagination is okay, but are we whatever we are imagining, we start believing in it, that could be a problem because not everybody has that thought-provoking crazy mind of Einstein. So the moral of the story, for example, here is just by reading Einstein, if I start believing that I can think like Einstein, I'm stupid. You know, so it isn't it isn't if if that was true, then we all would be geniuses. You know, people can read about Bach, or people can read about Michelangelo, or people can read about, you know, anyone and become them. So if by reading this could have happened, we would have solved all problems or created more problems for the world. So it isn't so much about what you read and what you think you know, what you imagine you know. It's about what you can do. I'm sure when Einstein thought, he was 100% not sure, but I think when Einstein thought, he would have known that this is true, this is right. I think there was a sense of arrogance in him as well. But then he had to test it as well and show it to the world because the world won't want to believe it. So no matter what you do, you need to go and test it so that they can talk with authority, so that other people can benefit from your experience. Otherwise, what's the point? I mean the point is you can benefit yourself as well. That's okay. But I guess imagination isn't problematic. It's believing what you're imagining is what you can do without doing it, could be dangerous.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:13

All right, we're gonna wrap up. I got four questions for you. And I like that closing piece because life moves at the speed of reality, and that comes down to what? So 60 seconds in a minute, 60 minutes in an hour. I mean, that's all life, that's all, that's all life mode for us physically, for the physical body, at the speed of your own reality. So um, four questions I have here a TV show or a film that you found yourself going back to recently that you want to share, want to give away to anybody.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:40

Up in the air.

SPEAKER_00 1:09:42

Up in the air.

SPEAKER_01 1:09:43

George Clooney. So that up in the air movie was, and I was talking about it, that's why it's in the in my head to somebody. It's about a movie in which United States organizations don't fire people directly because of the threat of lawsuits. So they hire a third party to come and fire their employees, which is so you know, inhuman, I think. And but they give the severance package, the payments, they look, you know, that George Clooney's organization helped those people to set resettle, for example, and make them feel that they are there, they are supported. And he was really good at it. Suddenly, an intern came, and the intern thought, uh, ah, this, I can do it. You know, they are they are to be fired in a fire. And George Clooney says, Um, no, it's you know, think about their mortgage, their family, their single parents, or all those. It's not easy for them. Okay, no problem. The intern fired one of the employees. And she was crying in an interview, that lady who got fired, and she's saying, I'm a single grandmother, you know, how can I do it? Have a mortgage. Anyways, did it. And the intern said, see, I did it. And George Clooney was really upset. Half an hour later, the news came that that lady jumped off the bridge and ended her life. And it was a shock. And uh George Clooney, and then intern sort of got in a shock. And George Clooney helped explain the whole things from that experience. That is the main story. But the other story part is, and the reason it jails, he's a frequent flyer, like a lot of people listening right now would be. And in that movie, he has uh shown to that intern how to pack the bags and in what queue to stand, to be quick through the gates and not waste time because he's frequently flying. So there's a fun side of it, and there is a serious side of it. And the fun side is this, and the serious side is how we are so confident in our abilities sometimes that we start believing that whatever we are saying is correct, absolute, and true. And we live in that for so long that we start thinking that everybody should listen to us. Sorry, it isn't arrogance, it's misconception about our own abilities in our own selves. Again, coming back to that. We may think, but we may not be that.

SPEAKER_00 1:12:21

Okay, three books you would recommend to a friend right now.

SPEAKER_01 1:12:26

If I tell you something, you would be really you would probably end this podcast now. Apart from the academics, I have only read one book in my life, and that is Alchemist by Paulo Cohel. And that was in 2003, because I went to Europe for the first time in Dublin, and my Polish friend there, she made me read it. She knew I don't like reading, unless there are pictures in it. If something that doesn't have pictures, I seriously cannot. I I can't pretend. I will tell the other person I can't read this. I've not because it's in my mind. I've tried it. I've tried it a lot of times. First, I have to read everything backwards. I can't read things forward. I don't know why. And other thing is I need pictures. Academic books, that's fine. Papers, that's fine because I'm reading, I'm doing stuff, but I can only recommend one book. Alchemist by Paulo Coelho. It was awesome. However, if there's another two books required, I watch documentaries rather than reading books.

SPEAKER_00 1:13:30

Let's go. Let's go with that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13:32

So, um, and National Geographic has this documentary genius, and there are different episodes, like you have Einstein and you have uh um Newton and all those, and the cartoon Scooby-Doo. Because I think, and I use Scooby-Doo quite a lot when I was studying my second master's and my PhD, because it has everything in it: communication, teamwork, courage, fear, restlessness, excitement, enthusiasm, love for animals, togetherness, friendships, the difference between friendship and enemy, the way the society is with respect to richness, to the way these kids are in school. Even born to rich parents, but they are still running behind solving mysteries. It has a lot of depth, Scooby Doo. If somebody would want to see it not just as a cartoon, but something that we are living a life right now. We can connect, you know, to different people in it. Whether Velma, some nerd people will call Velma, some you know, fashion people will call Daphne, and you know, all those. And Scooby is dumb, but he is an amazing dog. He finds more clues than anybody else. So, you know, uh, it's it's great. Yes, I can recommend that.

SPEAKER_00 1:14:51

All right, next one is a product or tool you have been using that has been a game changer if you open the share.

SPEAKER_01 1:14:57

Not sure if I have an answer. One thing that I can show you that has value to me is this it's like a traffic signal sign. Oh, interesting, and um, it says railroad crossing, and it's like that. To some, this is just an artifact, but it's a sharpener. No, no, so that's not the only part is that it's to me I keep it on my table because every single time I look at it, it makes me doubt what I know. That's how my mind has taken this every time. So that doubt makes me rethink what I'm thinking, so allows me time to reflect on what I'm thinking. So this is that artifact, and it's very valuable. And um it isn't so much that I recommend this for people, but I recommend finding stuff like these that allows you to juggle your memory. Look at that with a book. Every single thing that Owl has this, the hand, the book, the dress, it it makes me wonder about a lot of things that I'm doing in my life right now. So I have kept artifacts in my room in the manner that it helps me understand how I'm thinking, what I'm thinking, why I'm thinking. Everything, if I look at it, it will make me pause. And that's how my table is designed to make me pause. Otherwise, I wouldn't know when to pause. It's like unknown, unknown. But if I have if I look at these artifacts, it means I just need to stop for a bit. Think what I'm thinking. That is very important for me. That makes me earth myself and not fly in my imagination. Know that I can fly, but still earth myself on the ground just by pausing. So my recommendation is if you ask, find an artifact that allows you to pause in this fast-paced, crazy life that we are living right now. To pause. Because if somebody keeps telling you to pause, you get irritated. And you don't know when to pause because you're so much in the game. Don't know whether it's a wrong game or right game, but you're in the game. So having these artifacts really, really helped me. And I'll with a book thinking and that railroad crossing and that old traditional clock.

SPEAKER_00 1:17:34

That's interesting. What pops in my head was like, Oh man, I just met me a doubting genius.

SPEAKER_02 1:17:42

That's nice, right?

SPEAKER_00 1:17:44

Putting this in this last one: a community you have been finding real value in.

SPEAKER_01 1:17:53

Here in it's a part of Rotary International, but Rotary Club of Adelaide. And I see real value in it uh because I'm running a project. I've got the project in it called Dream Cricket. So I'm the director of Dream Cricket in South Australia and we play cricket with special need kids. So we run clinics at schools, special schools. So we go there and we play cricket with kids. Now it's not a normal game of cricket like we see on TV, but it has different um um exercises. So there might be there might be a net with holes in it, and the kid might be on a wheelchair with curling arms like this, they can't really move. And we somehow put a ball in it, and they slide the ball through, and it goes through that in that hole. And you can see the smile on their face. That's success for them. Um, there are some kids who can't stay still, they're always going around. So we have exercises about having a bat and hitting a ball. So there are lots of exercises that we do, and it's dream cricket. And we run, like last year in November, we booked University Oval, we invited like hundred kids from four different schools. Teachers were there, Rotary people were there to volunteer in it. It's sort of a project that we run within Rotary as well. It's an it's like a separate organization, but it's within the Rotary, the project we run. And uh there's no money charged at all. We do everything Rotary has given us grant. Like Rotary Club of Adelaide gave uh Dream Cricket uh South Australia grant as well, and that we use to buy kits and uh we donate to the school so that the purpose is not just play that cricket game once for an hour with those kids because they get tired. It's to have that embedded in their curriculum and give them the kit and the resources, and we go them uh we go there again so that the teachers can play with the kids regularly. And you could see parents weeping there. They said, We have given up on our kid that he can actually ever um you know communicate or be a part of society, and now I can see him play. They are weeping. It's like I get goosebumps when I think about this. I mean, what can be more beautiful than this? That parents finding their kids in whom they have lost complete confidence now flourishing through this game of cricket. So it's amazing. So I don't see any more value than being associated with Rotary Club of Adelaide and Dream Cricket than anything else. Everything is great. I am part of human intelligence movement, I'm part of Friends of the Library, I'm part of uh, you know, my organizations that I work for. Um, but Rotary Club of Adelaide and Dream Cricket is what makes my heart beat.

SPEAKER_00 1:20:38

All right, we are at the end of this incredible conversation. You have dropped a lot of wisdom, and I think this is gonna be useful. Always great to chat with you. And man, you got a good mind, by the way.

SPEAKER_01 1:20:52

Well, yeah, you are dwindling in it, and you are providing me that opportunity to dwindle in it. So I think together we can create more mysteries and talk about more stuff that I think is hidden somewhere in our mind. So this is a very good platform and opportunity, Ashes. I must thank you for helping me reflect on what I'm thinking.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:15

Yes, I we only got to like five of the Max, and I got like 20 that I want to get your get your spin on. So we got some more to get to next the next time we talk.

SPEAKER_01 1:21:23

Yeah, I will I look forward to it. I won't go and search for Maxim because I don't wanna don't wanna make me think in a certain manner. So I would be more into same prompt too. When you throw up when you say something, we'll start having a discussion.

SPEAKER_00 1:21:36

So I think that's yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. All right, Dr. Ankid. Um, any last word before we close out?

SPEAKER_01 1:21:42

Yes. To all the listeners, this might come across as philosophy and to believe in yourself. So I'm not gonna do that. What I'm gonna say is there is a, in my experience, but I've noticed, there is a merit in pausing. And the moment we pause, because we are Isla, you know, you're driving, you're standing in a car, and suddenly the car moves and your whole body jerks back, and the car stops, whole your body comes forward. But while the car is moving, you are stationary. So when we are continuously moving, we are stationary. We don't know when to pause because there is no need for it unless the car breaks or starts. So there is a merit in pausing, finding that pause, that break that allows you to stop moving, allows you to regather yourself, regroup, rethink, recalibrate, and then start again. That's my last words today.

SPEAKER_00 1:22:41

And with that, make it an utterly, utterly fantastic week.