SPEAKER_02 0:00

In this culture, they look at immigrants as uneducated, maybe not knowing the language, taking the jobs nobody wants, you know, brown on the outside and white on the inside. We call them coconuts, we call them bananas. I still haven't gotten the Anglo community to really accept our leadership for what it is. That may take more time. Jesus didn't say that. He did not start a church. And Christ is not his last name. Christ is the consciousness that you want to achieve as a human being.

SPEAKER_01 0:28

If there's no record of you, then you weren't here. So then how do we get better at leaving the records of us, especially as a community? A system you have to watch is a system you don't trust.

SPEAKER_02 0:40

In leadership, they say a strength overplayed becomes a deficit. I very rarely talk about the current administration and the current president. I don't want to put my intention there.

SPEAKER_01 0:52

And it's a feeling about your own culture that you want to be part of. And when you're not part of it, then something you feel like part of your identity is missing. I feel like the scripture's not written in the book, it's written in my heart.

SPEAKER_02 1:02

Unhealthy people in a society is not normal. An oak tree is just an acorn that stood its ground.

SPEAKER_01 1:08

But sometimes we forget to like find what's in us versus tap into what's outside of us.

SPEAKER_02 1:13

If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. That's why I love love, because love comes in all colors.

SPEAKER_01 1:19

God never make anything twice.

SPEAKER_00 1:28

Today we're honored to introduce a true pioneer in leadership, Dr. Juana Bordovas. With nearly 50 years of experience as a global leader, a teacher, mentor, and an author, Dr. Bodevs is recognized as an elder and icon in the leadership world. In 2019, she received the prestigious International Leadership Lifetime Achievement Award, joining the ranks of renowned thought leaders like Peter Drucker and Warren Bennett. Dr. Bordovas is the founder of the Meat Casa Resource Center, a model for women's empowerment, and was the first president and CEO of the National Hispana Leadership Institute, shaping Latinas for National Leadership. Her influence spans the globe, and her best-selling books, Salsa Soul and Spirit, Leadership for the Multicultural Age and the Power of Latino leadership, continue to inspire and empower leaders worldwide. Please join us in welcoming Dr. Juana Borda.

SPEAKER_01 2:30

Utterly, utterly fantastic day. Yeah. Every memory got a meaning. Every meaning got a mystery. Memoirs to millions. We are live with the amazing Juana. Did I say your name right?

SPEAKER_02 2:50

That's right, Juana.

SPEAKER_01 2:52

Juana, Juana. Juana. Okay. Juana with the same.

SPEAKER_02 2:56

It's in Spanish, Juana.

SPEAKER_01 2:59

Ah. Uh-huh. We were mistaken it for Joe Wana.

SPEAKER_02 3:04

But it's not it's the same name as John, so it's a very, you know, common name, actually, uh, across the world.

SPEAKER_01 3:12

Well, today I want to dig into what I call the engineer's arguments. That's gonna be the theme. And I have some prepared things that I would love to get your your thoughts on. But before I get into it, I want to go back to back in the day. So if you had to imagine yourself back the 10 and 12 year olds version of yourself, I would love to know where were you in the world, what was happening for you, and what was going on inside of you, if you can remember those time frame back in the day.

SPEAKER_02 3:36

Yeah, well, I'm an immigrant. I came over to this country when I was three years old with my mother, and we uh my mother and father had eight children back in the day. And uh this was in the 1940s, actually. And uh so it was um a little bit shocking when we landed in the United States. None of us could speak English, my dad could speak. So I went to school at six years old, not not understanding the language. It made me in in retrospect very adaptable, very savvy, you know, because I had to figure things out. And uh so by the time I was 10, I was reflecting on this, 10 or 12. I have been gifted with um a real ability to connect with people and to kind of build a sense of community with people, a sense of belonging. It's what I do in my work. And so by the time I was 10 or 12, I had pretty much mastered the language, and I was very popular with girls. But you know, I I ended up, I have three sisters. I went to an all-girls high school, I was in a sorority in college, and then I, you know, worked in I started women's centers. So my life has really centered a lot around women. So by the time I was 10 or 12, I was getting my feet on the ground, figuring out who I was, and but I was really relating to a group of young women, and I found in my life that it has been the support of women and the friendship of women and that connection that women have that have really made my life meaningful and have helped me uh become who I am. So I think that was about the age of, yeah, I I think I got this. And um and and I started being able to use my talents or my abilities to to form friendships and to be very successful in school, and I and I became a leader at a very young age because of that. Even though I was an immigrant, even though I was from a poor family, uh, you know, even though my my my mother couldn't speak English, um, I was able to to really uh you know start being a leader at at around 12 or 13.

SPEAKER_01 5:46

So so so your origin you're origin from the the southern part of the the United States?

SPEAKER_02 5:52

Yeah, my family's actually from the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua. And in the 40s, there was in actually in the late 30s, there was a tsunami that wiped out the Caribbean in that area, and that's why we came to the United States. So uh, you know, a lot of the people that come as immigrants, you know, I always say you're not gonna leave your home, the people who love you, your culture, your language, and go to a strange place unless you unless there's a reason. You know, people come looking for jobs, they come looking for a better life. And one out of five people in the world today are refugees because of climate, because of political situations, economic need. And so, yeah, so that so that's why my family left because of this force of nature that wiped out the coast of Nicaragua.

SPEAKER_01 6:37

Yeah, a lot of history, you got a lot of history that some of us don't think about that much now.

SPEAKER_02 6:41

Well, yeah, but you gotta look at this, uh, you know, and I and I tell this to to immigrant parents when they're trying to raise their kids. You know, a lot of times in this culture, they look at immigrants uh, you know, uh as uneducated, maybe not knowing the language, taking the jobs nobody wants. But actually, my parents were leaders. My parents had a vision, my parents had resiliency, stamina, and they did what great leaders do, and that is they left a legacy. I am who I am because of their sacrifice, because of their determination, because of their my children's lives are going to be better. And so when I look at immigrants today, I see leaders, I see people with vision, I see people with determination, I see people who are willing to do the hard work, and even as Martin Lut Luther King said, defer their dreams so that others may be able to dream.

SPEAKER_01 7:33

Wow, you are you were on something. I have this other question then. My second question, and I'll be asked while I get into the conversation, is what is the kindest thing someone have done for you recently or of all time done for you?

SPEAKER_02 7:47

Well, you know, I I think a lot of people would say that um well, first of all, if I go way back, even though the nuns were they were they were something to deal with, you know, you really I remember in our in our school they used to have tiles and we used to have to walk the lines of the tiles when we went someplace. I mean, the nuns said no nonsense, nuns is what I call them. But they taught me to read and write, and I'm an educated woman because of them, and I have discipline because of them. So I would say in my early life, I have to thank the good nuns who also sacrificed their lives for children. You know, we don't have nuns anymore, really, but the whole Catholic school system was based on women who did that. And then as I um and as I grew, I would say it was my mentors that really showed me what it means to be a servant leader, what it means to be a leader that elevates people, and a leader that's not there for their own, you know, for their own advancement necessarily, although you do advance when you do leadership, but you're there for the advancement of your community and your people. And I had two incredible Hispanic mentors when I was in my 30s that really formed me as who I am today.

SPEAKER_01 9:00

And if you had if you had to reform it.

SPEAKER_02 9:02

Shout out to their names, by the way. Bernie Valdez, who by the way segregated the Denver Public Schools, became head of the school board and desegregated them, and Lena Archuleta, who for 90 years showed me that leadership is a lifelong commitment to serve your people and help build a lot of the organizations that exist today in our community. So they're of course gone, and so this was a while. Both of them have Lena has a library and a school named after her, Bernie has a school named after him. That's how distinguished they became.

SPEAKER_01 9:35

What would you say? What would you say your biggest impact on the world is right now? What would you say that? What would you say that is?

SPEAKER_02 9:41

Well, the interesting thing for me is that most people, since I ran, I've run leadership programs since the 90s. Um, right now, one of my students is running for the city council at large in Denver, and and two are on the Denver City Council. And many of the women that I trained in the early 2000s are now running the organizations in in our community. So people often think that that's my biggest contribution, and of course it is in a way. But if if I want to reach out, it's my books. Uh, because I my my la my first book was called Salsa, Soul and Spirit, Leadership for a Multicultural Age, and it looked at black American Indian and Latino leadership. And you know, I say to people, how did we get here? 500 years of slavery, of being on reservations, of being colonized, of all these things, you know, because uh Latinos really are the Mexican people, a third of this land was Mexico. So we're, you know, we're still colonized people, and yet we made it, and yet we kept our values. And yet, if you want to look for real leadership, you look to our communities. Because we never had the money or the privilege or the power, so our leaders weren't exactly sealing and and and having power, power things and having big egos and all that. You know, we really do have a different model of leadership in communities of color. And so I think being able to bring that forward uh has been my biggest contribution because it's used in universities, it's used in leadership programs. And my second book, The Power of Latino Leadership Ahora, was the first book on Latino leadership. And what I learned from leaders, mainly white males, um, who wrote about leadership, they said to me, Your communities are the oral tradition, and you may have great leadership, but if you don't write about it, if you don't have models, if you don't interview leaders, it doesn't exist in our community. I still haven't gotten the Anglo community to really accept our leadership for what it is. That may take more time. You know what I mean? I mean, they're not exactly running over and saying to Latinos, how did you get here? What did you do? What can your leaders teach us? But I think we'll get there someday. We'll have a a society where people will learn from each other and our leadership will be integrated into the mainstream leadership course because we are so good at what we do and we are advancing as communities, even though we're still marginalized people.

SPEAKER_01 12:09

You know, you said you kept your value, and I something I I I love about I would say folks on the southern side, right? This deep sense of family values and family connection. And because I I love when I see this, the the Spanish folks of the world, sometimes they are very close-knit. Yes. I always, I always I always appreciate seeing that.

SPEAKER_02 12:28

Yeah, I think that's true across communities of color. We are collective cultures, we're not individualistic cultures, and the Anglo culture is an I culture, and we are a we culture, you know. And so the tribe, the community, the family, and for Latinos, it's a very extended family. You know, we have comadres, compadres, madrinos, madrinos, primos. That's the same thing in the black community, because you have to realize that in the black community during slavery, the families were torn apart when the child was one year old. So they created a village, they raised the child through the village, and that's why black people will say bro or a sister or you know, a mother, uh, a brother of another mother, because they have that sense of collectivity that comes from that historical experience. And so Native Americans and and and Latinos and African Americans have a real deep sense of community of people. We're collective. We know that our advancement is a collective advancement. It's not individualistic. And so it's very different than the Anglo community, where you know, Numero Uno or I, or that sense of accumulating wealth for myself is more important than accumulating wealth for your for your tribe or your community.

SPEAKER_01 13:40

Well, now you got so much to share. You do, you do a long time. You've been around a long time. But I want to go back into the this this oral tradition, the the idea that if there's no record of you, then you weren't here. So then how do we get better at leaving the records of us, especially as a community, so the folks that come after us know that we were here and what we left for them?

SPEAKER_02 14:06

Yeah, well, that's that's a great question because we are getting more and more writers. You know, an interesting thing for me is, for example, if you look at the African American community, Frederick Douglass was the first African-American to go to Harvard, and you have um black colleges, traditionally African-American colleges. So African Americans have had an intellectual class for a long time. And I think part of the reason for that is the fact that, you know, the whole community was brought here against their will, whereas uh Latinos are our mixture of European and indigenous, and then we have the indigenous Native Americans and people that were here. And our cultures, our oral tradition cultures, I think the African-American culture has made more strides in becoming an intellectual class. For Latinos, this is our first intellectual class. When I went to the university in 1960, there were no other Latinos there. And it was very rare for a Latino to have a college degree. But now we have we are the fastest growing group in college enrollment, and we have a what that's what's so exciting about working with young Latinos is we have an intellectual class now. We have engineers, we have doctors, we have writers, and it's beginning, it's a bubble-up process for all of us. Native Americans, uh, I think their traditions, I was just watching a video of three Native American teachers, and I think they're going to be able to use social media and videos to be able to pass on their oral tradition and their knowledge, because they're now telling stories online and telling about their ceremonies and traditions online. And I'll give you a good example of how this works, by the way. One of the people I interviewed for my myself, the soul and spirit book was John Ecclehawk, who's the head of the Native American Rights Fund. And um, he's my age, he's a senior, and he was part of 20 American Indians who in the 1960s, the University of New Mexico put together a Native American law program. It was the first one in the nation to study the treaties, to study Native American, uh, you know, to give Native Americans a foothold on how the legal system works and how they could use it to benefit them. These lawyers and NARF, the Native American Rights Fund, won back solvent rights for Native American people. There were no solvent rights before that because they could read the treaties and because they had legal know-how about how to go into the courts and get their land back. That's why it's so important for us to be able to educate ourselves in both systems. And yet, and yet we haven't had those opportunities. Um, like I said, when I entered college, I mean I never met another Latino. And my senior, my junior year, I marched to integrate the University of Florida. There weren't even any blacks in or African Americans on the campus. So for us to get a critical mass of intellectuals and people that know the white system well enough to integrate ourselves and to bring our culture with us when we go, because that's important. It doesn't do us any good, you know, to be uh, you know, brown on the outside and white on the inside. We call not the we call them coconuts, we call them bananas, we call them people that forget who they are. You know, that's one of the rules in communities of color, never forget where you came from. Because what good does it do us, right? To lose our souls. So, anyway, uh, so so that's what's so important about today. It's that we have in our communities not only people who can document and move forward with the oral tradition and say this is how we lead, you know, because it takes research, it takes talking to people, it takes studying things. We never knew how to do that in the Anglo system, but now we do.

SPEAKER_01 17:54

This episode is sponsored by Live Chinese the Marketplace, the own for artists who own their stories and their business, your book, your merch, your audience. One storefront, you keep 80%, you own your customer list, you build a relationship, real relationship with the readers. If that sounds like the way you want to run your business, visit lifechanging wisdom.com. Oh, this is interesting. And and I'm I'm a reminiscent of the the idea about babies, right? Because we don't understand that baby doesn't come with history. They they're they're taught when they get here. But if we don't have the the parents or the people to educate them, that the information gets lost. Yes. So if we don't have the system in place to teach them the information gets lost, so it's important to have a way of educating those that come after us in what we have learned while we were here.

SPEAKER_02 18:43

Well, it's not only that, Asher, it's that we that the dominant system tried to whitewash us. So well, what I say to um I always joke around, I go like, you know, I know the white system. I went to college, I have a uh, you know, I'm Dr. Bordis, I went to graduate school, I know the system, but they don't know my system. And so it's very, you know, because we've had that, uh we've had a lot of trouble with that where our people get educated and then they become part of, and and there's, you know, there's good and bad in both systems. I mean, I'm glad I can think strategically, I'm glad I can build organizations, I'm glad I can do budgets and all these, you know, strategic thinking and all the stuff I learned in the Anglo community has helped me become a better leader and has helped me advance my people, I was able to start organizations. You know, so it's kind of like you need to know both. But if you get in the system and don't keep your values, and if our if our parents, like my parents were working so hard as immigrants, if if our parents and our communities are so overwhelmed by just trying to meet basic needs and deal with the issues we have because we are minorities, you know, 78% of Latinos are still working class. And so when you start looking, you know, at some of the issues we face, a lot of times this whole idea of having cultural preservation, of having our organizations that, you know, have our dance, have our music, have our food, have our values, you know, and passing that on, it's difficult. And that's why our cultural organizations are so important, you know, to have uh have our dance troops, have our celebrations, have Juneteenth, have, you know, Hispanic Heritage Month, because we are left out of the dominant cultural system. And so we have to make sure that we preserve that. And it's just another thing that you know, that's why we're so smart though. We can do all these things and keep, you know, I mean the system has actually made us stronger, more adaptable. You know, just it's it's just it's just allowed us to be able to tap into more of who we are. So I think we have I I call it the Latino advantage. We have an advantage now.

SPEAKER_01 21:04

You know, I remember when I um because I was in the military for for a long period of time, two decades of my life. And then, but I was away from my my Jamaican culture, right? Away from my family. I bit I integrate, I have different Jamaican pockets around the world, right? But I wasn't deeply in the conversation of what's happening back home or my family reminiscing on the past. So I felt I was disconnected for when I came back, I was like, man, I miss this, right? I miss this feeling, and there's a feeling about your own culture that you that you want to be part of, and when you're not part of it, then something you feel like part of your identity is missing. So I can only imagine that when we are integrated too much or assimilate too much, then we forget about some of that cultural value you're talking about.

SPEAKER_02 21:44

Yeah, I we do. So, um, and you know, the thing is is that when I was young, the only path to success was assimilation. But today, 18, um, if you look at 18 year olds and younger, the majority Identify as multicultural. We are coming into the multicultural age, regardless of the political climate today, regardless of the prejudice, the demographics are changing, and the 2020 census showed that. And so what you have today is people who want to connect to their culture. You have Latinos that want to know who they are. You have Latino music, African American music, athletics movies. You know, look at the movie that won this year. Um, what was it called about the vampires?

SPEAKER_01 22:34

Oh, sinners, I think. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_02 22:37

The one best movie. Anyway, I mean, so we are reaching a new height in being able to share our cultures. And that's what young people are looking for. They don't want to assimilate anymore, they want to acculturate, they want to be able to travel between the worlds, but their identity, they want that identity to reflect everything that they are. And it's much more diverse because so many are multicultural or mixed, or you know, and and even if they're not, if you're Latino, you still want to know about African-American culture. If you're African American, you still want to learn how to dance the cumbia. You know, it's just we're beginning to have this crossover and people realizing that every culture has gifts to give humanity.

SPEAKER_01 23:22

Okay, we're gonna jump into the maxim game. And earlier we you talked, you say you were you a very deep admirer of Mr. Moji and um and his spiritual journey that you're finding fascinating too. But I have my first little maxim that I want to read to you. I don't get your thoughts when you when I read this. I want to hear your thoughts. What comes to mind for you? The first one is prayers is not a phone call, so why do we make the call? On in version side of that, it says, the call was never sent out, it was sent back in. When you hear those words, what comes to mind?

SPEAKER_02 23:54

Well, I think we make the call to connect. We were talking earlier about how distracted and how busy the world is. You know, I always take time every morning to connect uh with my higher power to really have that sense of well, first of all, the first thing you pray for is to say thank you. That's the number one rule in prayer is to start off with saying thank you because you've been given this life, you know. You've been you no matter what your situation, you made it, you know. And so you start the prayer with gracias and thank you for who you are. The other thing I've learned about prayer is that prayer is a positive affirmation. In the old days, you used to, you know, in the Catholic Church in particular, it used to be beating your breast and saying what a sinner you were. Well, the truth of the matter is that we're not, we were born with original grace, not original sin. We're we're children of the divine. And that saying gracias and connecting with your inner power, your inner source, is is what prayer to me is about. God or the spirit or the universe is infinite and already knows what your needs are. So you're not exactly calling up and saying, I need this. That's all that's that's a given, you know. If God is omnipotent, omnipresent, you know, and uh all-knowing, all-being, all-seeing, you don't need to do that. What you do need to do is affirm and say, Thank you for everything I've been given, and thank you for the fact, like I used to say, this I have I have all the money I need, and more is coming. Because then you're setting a pattern in the universe that more money's coming rather than sitting there and beating your breast and saying, Oh God, how am I going to pay the bills? Help me now. You know, no, you say to God who is infinite and wants to give you the kingdom. Uh, thank you for all the money I got, and I'm looking forward to more coming down the low down the road. Gracias. Thank you for taking care of me. So I think we make the call in order to give thanks, in order to affirm the goodness that God is and to um and to kind of create our lives. We've been given the power of free will and the power of intuition and the power of the mind. And so part of prayer is setting a pattern. Um, as an elder, one of my patterns is that I'm in good health and that my body is is all my cells are working together. I say that prayer almost every day because I want to ensure that I have good health. So what I'm saying to God is thank you for my good health, and God always answers your prayers.

SPEAKER_01 26:35

That is that needs to be written down. I like that. I like that. Oh, my cells are working together. Just imagine just those words itself, all my cells are working together.

SPEAKER_02 26:44

Every cell, my body is happy and works together with every other cell, so that you create a harmonious body every day. Um, I also learned a zen practice, which I think is really um incredible. We're 80%, 70% water. And so I I drink a glass of water every day, and I I go outside, I look at the sun, and I say, the first thing I say is gracias, thank you. Then I say, I want peace. I have peace, I have love, I have abundance, I have knowledge because I have to work with knowledge. You know, I have knowledge, I have health, and I have happiness. And so you're actually saying to your body and the water inside you, this is a Zen practice, by the way, from the Zen people. You're saying, I have these qualities circulating through my body all day today. And it's a beautiful practice, and it takes five minutes. You go out, you drink your water. You should drink a glass of water when you wake up anyway, to get all your organs and everything going and to get your body to you know clean out from the from the night's sleep. So you're doing two or three things. You're cleaning out your body, you're taking a moment of peace and rest, and then you're saying to your body, here comes water that's gonna infuse my whole day with abundance, with love, with gratitude, with with uh knowledge. And um, and so I do both of those practices every day.

SPEAKER_01 28:08

Hmm. I've got another one here.

SPEAKER_02 28:10

And that's in my new book, by the way. Uh my new book's gonna be more of a spiritual book to help people do these kind of things so that they can be good leaders. You can't be a good leader unless you're taking care of yourself.

SPEAKER_01 28:22

When is when is your new book coming out? What's the name of the case?

SPEAKER_02 28:24

Well, I'm looking for a publisher now. If anybody's listening to this, um it's uh called We Are All the Chosen People, and it uh defies the myth of religions that say you have to. When I was growing up, they said if you weren't Catholic, you were gonna go to hell, you know. And uh, if you don't accept Jesus, you're gonna go to hell. Well, you know, Jesus Jesus didn't say that. First of all, let's be clear. He did not say that. He did not start a church, and Christ is not his last name. Christ is the consciousness that you want to achieve as a human being, Christ's consciousness. So anyway, um, and the second part of it is it's called the mestizo gospel because mestizo mix means the mixed race multicultural people, and they're the majority of people in the Western Hemisphere, uh, the indigenous and Spanish, and I'm French, the mix that you are, you know, the Caribbean mix. So it's a gospel for the multicultural world.

SPEAKER_01 29:18

Powerful. Well, congratulations on that. Yeah, we can talk about that other side of it, and looking forward to that coming out.

SPEAKER_02 29:23

Yeah, I hope so. No, I know so.

SPEAKER_01 29:28

Here's another here's another maxim. It says, so a system you have to watch is a system you don't trust. If you had to flip it over, the watching is the upkeep, nothing runs forever untouched. What comes to mind for you?

SPEAKER_02 29:44

I guess I immediately thought of a computer, by the way. Um, when I thought of a system, you know, that is very frustrating to somebody my age because I don't know computers like young people do. Um, so I do watch it and I have people help me and you know, all of that, and I get very frustrated with it because it's a tool that I'm I'm not a master of. There is an adage, uh, and I think there's been a lot of research done on this, is that anything you pay attention to grows or is affected by your attention. So you need to, you know, be careful what you pay attention to. And, you know, for example, um, I very rarely talk about the current administration and the current president. I don't want to put my attention there. Yes, I want to know what's going on. Yes, I understand the system itself is broken, or we wouldn't have this kind of corruption and this kind of inhumane treatment of people. Um, but I can't put my attention there. Uh, if I put my attention on that system, that system gets power. Everybody who puts their attention, if you put your attention on something, it gets your power in a sense. So I have to put my attention on how do I build more leadership? How do I um infuse the world with more positivity? How do I get more people involved in the political process so that we can change that system? So I think it's really important for us to know which systems we're paying attention to and what do we, what message do we want to give about that system? Because you really can't, something that big, you as an individual can't change it. You have to either get with like minds or figure out what is your piece in in moving that system into a different direction. But systems are very hard to dismantle. They're called systems because they're like this, they're integrated.

SPEAKER_04 31:42

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 31:43

Um, so you have to look now. I'm an old community organizer, and um old meaning I've done it for a long time. And when you're community organizing, you always have to look at the system and see where is the fault line or where is the point where if I go into that system, I can create change. Uh, because, like, for example, if you're gonna work with a group of people, and there's an easy formula for this, by the way, and it's what are people's greatest needs, their highest priorities. So if you know getting a job is their highest priority and you want to get them involved, what we offered at the women's center that I started was job training and job placement as a way to get people engaged, getting a better life, and then being able to be more active in their own community and in their own, you know, to empower them in their own lives.

SPEAKER_01 32:34

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SPEAKER_02 32:54

So you look through the fault.

SPEAKER_01 32:56

No, I like I like this concept because you know you were talking about even culture earlier, too, because what changes system would what whatever to change system is culture, and culture is organized, often organized. So organized culture helps change system, but it's a matrix, it's a matrix. Yeah, yes. If you go at it by yourself, it might crush you. But if you organize enough people, you can shift the momentum and and and divert the system. So I like that.

SPEAKER_02 33:19

Yeah, well, I I do want to say that um leadership in communities of color is critical mass leadership. That's what Martin Luther King was doing, that's what Cesar Chavez was doing, that's what all the leaders were doing. They were trying to create a critical mass because we don't have uh the leverage of power and money and influence. So the thing that we do have and the system that we need to create is where everybody's involved. Now that makes for great leadership because what you're doing is you're empowering individuals to become leadership by the many, to have many that are leaders who can then empower themselves and change their own lives as well as help with the movement.

SPEAKER_01 33:56

Here's another maxim. This one says, if you can break it, somebody built it wrong. On the inversion sides, every real system has a breaking point. That's not a flaw, that's the design. What pops in your mind when you hear those words?

SPEAKER_02 34:11

Well, two things I think that are kind of frustrating about systems, and one is that the world is run by engineers, and the job of the engineer is to reboot the system, to make it different, to make it better, to change it. And so many people, you know, they go like, oh my God, you know, now I have to get a new phone because it's been changed. The system has been changed. I think that that's part of the the modern world or the contemporary world, is to can consistently be continuous improvement, whatever you want to call it. They're always messing with things. So uh it and I don't think it's breaking the system exactly, although systems do break. I think it's uh constantly tweaking, making it better, making it different, change, change. We live in a time of very rapid change, a lot of ambiguity about what where we're going and stuff. And so it's very frustrating that that systems change. Um, even when they change, you know, when Microsoft changes the way it presents something, people have to keep adapting to system change. And um and so I think it's difficult. And I think it's built into systems to well, I know for products, there's um what's it called? It's called uh it's uh planned obsolescence, that they will actually make products with planned obsolescence, like they're only gonna last three years or two years or four years. So they program the system to not continue. Um, and the fact is, is I think it really doesn't give people the sense of what are the things that are lasting? What are the things that are important in life, like family or or like generosity, because what goes around comes around. Learning, you know, learning and and growth and and becoming more of who you can be, a knowledge, the things that are really important that they aren't they aren't systems that break, they're things that continue to evolve and grow and and blossom, you know. I think this whole idea of system change and and systems breaking and obsolescence and all that, it it's not a good way to plan for a viable future.

SPEAKER_01 36:25

No, given that, given your elderhood and you know you've seen a lot of things, if you had to look at our current state, right in our current situation, and kind of see where you mentioned ambiguity, like people not sure where to go. And what felt when in your past felt like today, like this current time you're in, that you can reflect on and give people an idea of you've seen this before and it felt like it's before, or it never felt like it's for before before for you.

SPEAKER_02 36:50

Well, I think that you know, the fact that we have so much change and ambiguity and this whole idea of system change, you know, that uh where we're constantly upgrading and changing, and you know, people are trying to keep up. I I think we need to go back a little bit, not only to look at what is enduring, you know, in in our values, but also the fact that people okay, this is a good one. So the human being made it to the top of the evolutionary pile because we were the most adaptable. Remember that? Adapter perished, all of that. So our strength was to be adaptable. But in leadership, they say a strength overplayed becomes a deficit. So today we have this thing called the new normal. For example, I never saw a homeless person until I was 30 and I went to San Francisco. Today, having half a million people homeless in LA or whatever it is, you know, 80,000, 90,000 is considered normal. That is not normal. When I was growing up, people didn't really lock their doors, they felt safe. When I was growing up, a working class person could own a home. Wages have not kept up with inflation, with the cost of housing, with the cost of medical care, all of that. So I think our adaptability to this system change, and also our adaptability and the complexity of just trying to deal with modern life, which has some of our children and our people just exhausted and distracted through media, through social media, through sports, through entertainment, through all the stuff they feed you in order to not get you to pay attention. I believe that this whole idea of normal has to be redefined. What do we want normal to be? And for me, normal is people having enough food on the table. Normal, that's you know, having a decent place to live. Normal is people being able to contribute through work in some way. So I think that's part of the problem that we have today is our adaptability. I mean, uh, every time I go out in traffic, why have we adapted to that kind of stress when, you know, they took the electric car down decades ago because it was invented way back, so that the oil companies who run our economy could continue to put gas in the car and have everybody out there stressed out for an hour and a half trying to get home. So I believe we have to look at what do we want, what is our vision for the future, and make that the normal that we're working towards.

SPEAKER_01 39:29

Hmm. That is you you got me thinking about uh we're we're in this, uh I'm thinking about AI now. So what pops in my mind is the AI, the AI is fast change. And the we are capable of buying intelligence, paying for intelligence very fast, but then what are we gonna use it for? Because now you're saying a lot of these things that we're we have normalized that shouldn't be normalized, like the homelessness or the unemployment or the lack of purpose that that we are experiencing.

SPEAKER_02 39:55

Okay, and and who wants to who believes in a society that does not want healthy people? We're the only civilized or first world country that doesn't have health care for its people. That's not normal. Unhealthy people in a society is not normal. That's not what we want to be normal. So I'm just saying that people have been sold this bill of goods about, you know, this is normal. No, this was created by a system.

SPEAKER_01 40:23

Let's step to another one. This one is a little spiritual. Uh this one says um God didn't leave the room, God is the room. And the inversion says a builder standing inside his own build has nowhere to step back and see it from, if that makes any sense to you.

SPEAKER_02 40:40

A builder standing inside his own building doesn't have perspective because they're in the middle of something. I think that was one of the things that I credit the um Anglo culture for teaching me, and that's strategic thinking, that because we come from collective cultures, it's hard for us to step out of the culture to look at the culture. If you know what I mean. So anything that you're involved in, the only way you can get perspective is to step out of it and look into it. And that's a skill. That's a skill that you learn. Because I think children who are so engaged in their lives and are are so present, that's a hard thing to do just to stop. And I think our parents used to say, stop, think, look, listen, that's all getting perspective. And so if you're in the middle of something that you have created, whether it's chaos or something really great, you know, you can't have perspective about it because you're involved in the process at that moment.

SPEAKER_01 41:41

This is good. This is so good. Because now when we think about, you talk about distraction earlier, but if we're in the system and it's not working, we might not know it's not working. We feel like it's not working, but we don't we don't know it's not working because we have to step out of it.

SPEAKER_02 41:55

Right.

SPEAKER_01 41:55

And that's as interesting here.

SPEAKER_02 41:57

And that and that's where making it normal comes in. Because you're in the system and they're telling you it's normal, but it doesn't feel right. You know you're working harder than ever, and yet you're paying more for your groceries, and your child can't go to college because now it's too expensive. But they're telling you that's normal. And you have to step out of that and say, wait a minute. When I went to college, I worked my way through college. I could do that. Uh, people can't do that today. I had a little bit of debt, but it wasn't very much, you know. So, in order to create the kind of society we want, we have to step out of it to look into it and say, what do we really want? If you're sitting in the middle of it and accepting it, then you're never going to be able to change it because you're part. That's the old story. If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem. When you're in that system, you're part of that system. And the only way to step out of it, it's good with electoral politics too. The only way for people to step out of, we don't have to have these, I won't say it, who they are, because we're, but we don't have to have those kind of leaders. That's not a given that we have to have corrupt leaders, leaders who are ego-driven, leaders that want to accumulate leaders that want power rather than want to serve the people. But we have to make that stand and we have to step outside of the current system and say, no, this isn't working.

SPEAKER_01 43:23

And the challenge to that is because to step out of it, you need to have time to step out of it. And if you're busy and distracted, then how can you step out of it to see it and get the perspective?

SPEAKER_02 43:33

It's not only busy and distracted, but stressed. The modern world is stress.

SPEAKER_01 43:38

Yes.

SPEAKER_02 43:38

Yeah, stress. And so, you know, you're trying to balance all these things. And you know, my parents had a hard time with with uh, you know, having to make enough money and all of that, but they knew they could do it. Do you see what I mean? Okay, we're gonna work harder because we know we can do it, and I'm proof that they did it. And but people today can't really say if I work harder, if I get another job, I'm going to be able to afford that house. They can't say that anymore. So that's the problem, is that you have to step out of the system and say, this is not normal. This is not right. This is not the vision we want for our children for the future. And this kind of stress, this kind of debt, because a lot of people are in debt, is not normal. This is not the way the world was created. This is not the way human beings made it to where we are today. It's not okay that three people own half the wealth in America. You just have to stand up. You know what I mean? My minister always says that an oak tree is just an acorn that stood its ground. So we have to stand our ground. We have to stand our ground. And I'm very fortunate that I was raised by people and mentored by people who taught me to stand my ground.

SPEAKER_01 44:53

I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast. Before we continue, I have a gift for you. Since 2016, I have read and listened to over 900 books so far. It's gonna be a thousand. And I organized them into a library and I hand picked the top 100 books I recommend to my clients, my friends, and the people in my community. Books on storytelling, language, and personal growth, and building something from your own life. If you're watching this podcast and you're looking for your next great read, this library is your gift. It is free. Go to AsherAlbertWright.com and check out the 1000 book challenge. This is my gift to you. Now back to the conversation. You know, I'm I'm I have one more max, and then we can get into the last wrap-up question here. Because I want to discuss this with you because since you like the spiritual side of things, it says, take the cover off the Bible. What's left isn't scriptures, it's survival stories stitched together. An inversion of that is pull the cover off any machine and you find the same thing. Parts that survive the testing. So I'm meddling these engineering thoughts with the with the spiritual piece of it to understand, like when you take the cover off the Bible, what's left is scriptures, but it's what's what's left isn't scriptures, it's survival stories stitch together.

unknown 46:06

Right.

SPEAKER_01 46:06

What are your thoughts? What pops in your head when you hear those words?

SPEAKER_02 46:09

Okay, you asked me about God being in the what was that one the one we just talked about, about where God is or God in the room or something?

SPEAKER_01 46:18

Yeah, yeah. God didn't leave the room, God is the room.

SPEAKER_02 46:21

Right. Okay, so the spirit by nature is constantly changing, evolving, growing. We live in an expanding universe. So while I have learned from and treasure old scriptures, the living word is different. What God says to you today is different than what's in these stories in the Bible. And many of them are not uh relevant or concurrent with today's issues. And so it's the same thing with the quote unquote constitution of the United States. Yes, we need pillars of how do we live together, how do we um be good people. It's not okay to steal, it's not okay to murder people. We have to have standards and stuff, but within that, we are living in an ever-changing universe, and ever grow you're not the same person today. Every cell in your body has changed every seven years. We know that if we look at our lives, that we're not the same people we were 10 years ago. If you're growing and learning and changing. So when you look at the Bible and you take off the cover, I think, yes, and I especially, of course, have studied Jesus because he was such an avatar and such a teacher. And so I want to know and I want to follow his example of the prodigal son and welcoming people back and forgiving people because it's a good principle for your life if you have grudges, if you don't forgive, if you carry baggage, it's gonna just hold you down. So, how does a story relate to what you're living today? You know, and and how does that story infuse your life with meaning and energy and purpose? And if it doesn't, you know, because Christians get so stuck on the Bible, what's the living word? I read things every day by spiritual people who have tapped into the energy of God because God really is in the room. We are made of the image and likeness of the universe, which is the spirit, which is God. So you don't have to go anywhere, it's right here. Or you wouldn't be breathing.

SPEAKER_01 48:42

Because, you know, sometimes I I noticed the absence of creativity in people when it comes to words. I'm like, those are words that were used at a certain period of time during those millenniums, right? But here in your current time, how are you gonna transform those words to match your experience of today? And how are you gonna tap into the spirit? Because I feel like the scripture is not written in the book, it's written in my heart, right? From my experience or my connection to the divine. So then, but sometimes we forget to like find what's in us versus tap into what's outside of us, exactly. And sometimes I think I think the Bible is kind of distract from that in some ways, and people are like, Well, it's not all literal, find out what's spiritual for you.

SPEAKER_02 49:21

Right, and that's true with the Constitution as well. Anytime people drag something out that's 300 years old or 200 years old or whatever, or a thousand years old, a couple thousand years old, and say we got to live by this today. I'm like, no, we need to learn from it, find out what it's teaching you, how do you apply it today, and is it still relevant? Because the truth of the matter is that we are looking at things that were written a long time ago. And God is living truth, God is the living word, not 150, 200, 3,000, 5,000 years ago.

SPEAKER_01 49:53

All right, got some uh some wrap-up question here. I got five questions that I get to ask all my guests. And the first one, not sure if you do this, but a TV show or a film you'll find yourself returning to lately, if you don't mind sharing that.

SPEAKER_02 50:04

Well, I this isn't very spiritual, but um doesn't have to be. But uh I have a real connection to um Elvis Presley. I saw him when I was 13 years old. I have a whole lot of compassion for what happened to him in his life. Um, but I think if you listen to his spiritual uh his hymns and his spirit and you listen to him, he was actually following a spiritual path to follow Yogananda when his the devil, his manager, took his books away. And um, and so I feel he's kind of like Hamlet, you know, this tragedy that happened. And yet his voice was the voice of the angels, and his uh hymns that he sang. To me, it's you know, I I feel the spirit when I listen to him. So the last movie that I really would recommend is called Epic, and it's a story, it's him in his youth singing so that you can get a feeling for the great gift that God gave him. And just remember, you know, he was a truck driver, he was a 19-year-old truck driver that and handling fame, I know from talking to people who have gotten famous is a very difficult thing. Uh, that's why so many of our politicians end up being, you know, uh serving their ego rather than serving their people.

SPEAKER_01 51:23

That is so powerful. I don't think we put a lot of power into that what you just say. Because if if you're a person that's striving to be great and tomorrow you wake up being great and famous, what happened? What do you do next with all of that attention and all that extraction?

SPEAKER_02 51:36

And you can't even go to the movies, you can't get a hamburger, you can't walk down the street, you know. Um, it's it you're you're a prisoner in your own uh you you know, he had to build his own place where he could go that was locked up because he and and I think that's really a mistake to do that to famous people. We should just treat them like everybody else. My brother actually was vice president of Capitol Records, and he said, uh, um, if you meet a famous person, don't go up and say, Well, I love this song or I love this movie. They've heard it a billion times, leave them alone.

SPEAKER_01 52:11

So powerful. Three books you'd recommend to a friend right now?

SPEAKER_02 52:17

Uh, well, first of all, I'd I'd recommend one of my books.

SPEAKER_01 52:21

Okay. And what's the name? What's what's the name? Which one?

SPEAKER_02 52:24

South Soul and Spirit, Leadership for a Multicultural Age, uh, or The Power of Latino Leadership, Ahora. Um, I also uh really um treasure the book by uh Reverend Michael Bernard Beckwith, and it's called uh Life Visioning, because I think people really need to tap into their personal purpose. Why are they here? You are completely unique, just like every snowflake, every raindrop, every flower. The universe never makes anything twice. God never makes anything twice. Everything is unique, and so you have a unique purpose, you have unique talents, you have an ability. One of my sisters was an incredible seamstress. You know, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as you're using your talents that you were given and you have that sense of self. So I any any book on personal purpose, there's a couple of them written by Christians as well, but I would recommend that. And then I just started one of um Isabella Yende's books. She wrote House of the Spirits, uh, and this is about it's called Island, it's about the Caribbean. So I would recommend a book that talks about another culture that you don't really know about or would like to learn more of. We're moving into the multicultural age. We need to know about each other, we need to know about the other, and we need to respect and learn about. That's the big problem in America today. We don't learn about each other, we don't share our cultures like we should. And so I would recommend uh a book like that uh by Isbela Yende or another writer that that you're learning something about. This is learning about the Caribbean when it was settled.

SPEAKER_01 54:04

I hope you're enjoying this video so far. I have a new platform, the logical life change marketplace. And it's a place where authors can publish their book. If you're an author right now, you can publish your book, and you get to understand who you're who the people that buy your book. That means a customer, you get the information now, you can build a business around them. So go check out live changing wisdom.com if you want to learn more about that. Powerful. Next one a product or tool you've been using that's been a game changer.

SPEAKER_02 54:30

Interesting because I'm a real product kind of person. I just learned to use AI.

SPEAKER_01 54:36

Okay.

SPEAKER_02 54:36

Maybe um, maybe a couple months ago, maybe three, six months ago. And I think I'm using it in the right way. I use it to summarize my writing. I use it when I'm stuck creatively, I use it to integrate. I'll ask, how do you put these pieces together? I don't let it write for me because it uh, first of all, it writes these long, this long stuff. And you know, even on the bottom, it says the check it because it may not be true. You know, they have to put that in now because people were people were asking them for legal briefs, and AI would give them all this legal stuff that never happened, you know. So I don't think I think we need to be very careful with it. Um, by the way, another book that is real important is called Sapiens. It's about human beings and how we got here. Well, the the man who wrote that, who I can't remember, just did a whole series on AI on YouTube and how we better get it under control or it will rule the universe.

SPEAKER_01 55:32

Yeah, I think his name is Joval Horari. I think I know who you talk about. Yeah, I read that book. It's pretty good.

SPEAKER_02 55:36

Yes, yes.

SPEAKER_01 55:37

Okay, next one is a community you have been finding real value in.

SPEAKER_02 55:42

Okay. Um, well, as a Latina, I have to say it's my own community. Um, I always say, you know, if you're Latino, you never walk alone because there's something going on all the time, and we're such a collective culture. You know, like Latinos like being together and they like celebrating together and they like working together. So we have a real affinity for each other. So I just came back from um uh and that that includes music, and this is for you. I just came back from seeing Sima Funk. CEMA Funk is the Cuban funk group that that integrates Caribbean music with Afro music with Latino music. And you ain't heard funk till you've heard Cuban funk. And uh so I heard them and I I I heard that a number of Latino musicians, and I love the way my community celebrates life and how we support each other and how we help each other. And I do that mainly through joining organizations and also participating in cultural events. So that's the community that feeds me, the community I came from. And I must say, because I had to assimilate since I was born so young, that I had to go back to my community. And I always tell people you can always retroassimilate, you can always go back home, you know, like you did when you came out of the army. And I think that's where I get my sustenance, and uh, and that's what keeps me um it gives me energy and love and respect and belief and power.

SPEAKER_01 57:13

I love that. And the last one is your Mount Rushmore, three to five people who have been most influential in your life, and they cannot be your family members.

SPEAKER_02 57:24

Oh, okay. Well, I did mention my two mentors, Bernie Valdez and Lena Archaletta, and I mentioned them because they were my first Latino mentors as I went through my coming back into my community and being of service of my community. They're the ones who took me under their wing like a mother and a father. And they were the two, I must say this, they were the two greatest Latino leaders in Denver in the last century. So I was mentored by the best, absolutely the best. And so I would say them first of all, let me think of well, who else I would put as a personal mentor, because they're all my family members.

SPEAKER_01 58:01

That is that is a that is a hard one.

SPEAKER_02 58:05

I know this is gonna sound funny, but my my first husband, Theron, was very different than me. He was Irish, uh, he was a seventh-generation lawyer. He was uh um Irish, I say, because I believe Irish are are part of the third world, you know. They've been harassed by the English forever and they're Catholic and they believe in nature spirits and everything. So I I I include them as uh as part of our communities. He was an intellectual, and when I met him, I was not an intellectual. I had been to college, but it was like I broke free and and was able to, you know, not be watched by my parents all the time. So I had a good time in college. I did well, I did well, but I but I wasn't focused. And I must say that he um he went to law school and I went to graduate school because we, you know, went went to University of Wisconsin, and I became an intellectual because of him. And I think that's a real important trait that I have to be able to share my knowledge with myself and to become an educated woman. I mean, I already was, in a sense, you know, I had that sense, but he really was a uh kind of a scholar and uh and um uh a deep thinker and an intellect, so I learned that from him.

SPEAKER_01 59:18

Wow, this is beautiful.

SPEAKER_02 59:21

And then and then the and then the let me see, I you want me, you feel me to give you one more, which is yes, give me one more, which is really interesting because I I I depended so much on my family. You know, I I would pick Alice, the Alliance of Latino Aspiring Superintendents, because you know, today we are three percent of superintendents that make up half the children in schools, and I've done a lot of work with them. And through that, I have met so many Hispanics uh that are learning to be superintendents, like Gladys Cruz, who's a big superintendent in in New York and who was the first Latina to head up the um the labor association for educators. And so I would say that I would pick people that are so dedicated in that particular organization, because education is so dear to my heart. And I've met so many people who have gone and gotten their PhDs or they're in schools, and I get to teach them about their culture to bring that into their schools. And so I would say that that's been really, really important to me in in my later years here to be able to contribute to having more people that look like the kids in charge of education and changing education to have cultural relevance.

SPEAKER_01 1:00:34

This is beautiful, uh, Tawana. Thank you so much. And is there anything I didn't ask you that you wanted to share?

SPEAKER_02 1:00:39

Well, I wanted to thank you for doing the podcast and for having such a an intellectual, fun way of doing it and having your axioms and all that. I can see how much love and care you put into it. And um, I do want to say this for people that are listening. You know, African Americans have had a national anthem for over a hundred years. Lift every voice and sing. I am starting a movement that's going to be on Hispanic Heritage Map to make de colores the national anthem for all Latinos and to invite other people to sing this with us. And it goes like this: De colores se visten los campos en la primavera. The countryside is dressed in many colors in the springtime. De colores son los pajaritos que vienen de afuera, the birds, beautiful birds are in all colours. De colores es el arco iris que vemos lucir, the rainbow that shines for all of us. Y por eso los grandes amores de muchos colores me gustan a mí. That's why I love love, because love comes in all colours. And so I welcome people to join with that movement to make de colores not only the Latino national anthem, but to make a statement to our country, to the world that people are of all colours and we love them all.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:49

That's beautiful, by the way.

SPEAKER_02 1:01:51

So just decolores.com.

SPEAKER_01 1:01:54

Okay, okay. And my biggest takeaway, you said something I love. It says God never make anything twice. That is my biggest take. I've never heard those words in that combination, that syntax ever. And I'm I like that, I like that combination of words, and I'm gonna I'm gonna repeat that for myself going forward. God never make anything twice.

SPEAKER_02 1:02:14

That's why you're unique. But you should say, here's how I say it I am a one-of-a-kind design, a unique expression of the divine. Because there's never gonna be anybody like you, Asher, so go out there and kick it.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:30

Go ahead and kick it. Okay, what what is your biggest takeaway, if you don't mind?

SPEAKER_02 1:02:34

I think my biggest takeaway is that podcasts can be deeper than, you know, I've done a lot of podcasts, but a lot of times it's really focused on either leadership or culture. And I think that you offer uh um something that's a lot more uh that a lot deeper that gets into what people really think and and experience. And I feel like it brought out more of my ability to teach and to share.

SPEAKER_01 1:02:59

All right. Thank you so much for sharing. Okay, all right, with that, folks, make it an utterly, utterly fantastic day. And don't forget to subscribe, like, and share.